00:00Test, test, good morning, good morning
00:02What's going on, guys? So, Jerome Powell is going to be speaking today, and we're going to be live streaming that event
00:08This live stream starts in about three minutes for Jerome Powell, and it should be fun to see how it influences the overall market
00:19So, let me go ahead and pull this up, and I will be showcasing it in just a couple of minutes
00:28All right, all righty
00:49Can you guys see it okay? All right, what's going on, guys? Hope that you all are doing well
01:23Let's see how this moves the market
01:53All right
01:56[Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] So, [Music] okay, it should be starting any second now
02:34[Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] So, [Music] okay
03:13[Music] uh, [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music]
03:51It should have started
04:30It already looks like they're running a little late
05:08[Music] Of course, thank you guys for tuning in as well
05:20[Music] There it goes
05:34[Music] So, inflation is back, and for the first time since before the 2008 financial crisis, the European Central Bank, the Federal Reserve, and the Bank of England, along with a host of other central banks, are all tightening monetary policy
06:48But the threats to growth are immense, too
06:52Policymakers face a delicate balancing act between stamping out inflation and avoiding a recession
07:00Ladies and gentlemen, to traverse this narrow path, Francine Lacqua, editor-at-large at Bloomberg, will be moderating the session from scene
07:10The floor is yours, Claire
07:11Thank you so much
07:12Now, We're here at the ECB Forum on central banking
07:14Every year, it's very clear that Christine Lagarde really dominates the attention of investors, but not every year is like this one
07:20Now, for one, it's not as windy as it was yesterday, but that of course is not what makes this year so special and so unique
07:29We're entering a new chapter for monetary policy, a divergence from almost 15 years of policy experimentation in an age really defined by stubbornly low inflation
07:37Now, this year, that has changed
07:39As Claire was saying, our policy panel needs a little introduction, but I'm going to do it anyway
07:44Jerome Powell is the Chair of the U.S
07:46Federal Reserve, Andrew Bailey is the Governor of the Bank of England, and Augustin Carstens governs the Bank of Mexico
07:51Before becoming General Manager of the Bank for International Settlements and, of course, our host, the President of the ECB, Christine Lagarde
07:54Now, just a reminder: between them, these institutions hold nearly 20 trillion dollars’ worth of assets on their balance sheets, and they’ve of course maintained ultra-low, even negative interest rates for the better part of a decade, with little disruption
08:11They now have the unenviable position of presiding over the great unwinding of policies that may have permanently changed the architecture of global markets
08:20So, thank you all for joining us
08:22We're going to have, I’m sure, a robust discussion over the next 90 minutes
08:25Mr
08:27Carson, let me start with you
08:29As a central bank of central banks, you know… Central banks in general have faced a succession of crises over the past years, but also some of the structural factors such as the green transition, digitalization, and increased onshoring
08:40So, how different will the future of inflation be from now on? How different will it be from the last decade? Well, I mean, a very, very important change that has taken place in the last, I would say, two decades — or even more — if, for example, we compare this period of inflation with the 1970s, is that we have much stronger institutional frameworks, monetary frameworks, and institutional frameworks for central banks
09:14And I think they’re far better positioned to combat inflation
09:21If we go back to the 1970s, the 1970s have become a natural reference
09:38When, for example, the Bretton Woods system was failing, you didn't see more instability in the system when you were, for example, revising your exchange rate regimes, and that is not happening today
09:42I think that during this inflation period, very strong foundations have been established to create new, more nimble, more agile, and better-prepared central banks
09:55I think, for example, the design of the SEC, our host here today, in a way, incorporated many of those learnings
10:03When you are in charge of combating inflation, you need to be able to anticipate that sometimes you will be surprised because there are many factors affecting inflation, and not all of them are directly under your control
10:22Control, and I think to a large extent, this is what we are seeing today
10:26I see a very, very strong ability of all central banks to analyze, incorporate that information, and react
10:35For me, if you look very carefully at what is going on right now, in the last two years, we have seen dramatic changes in the environment
10:46We went from having a situation where depression was feared, and there was concern that inflation was coming, to a very quick rebound with the vaccination rollout and so on
11:00We moved tremendously quickly from an environment of fearing deflation to fearing inflation, and that has been compounded by the Russian crisis
11:12I have to say, monetary policy, as nimble as it can be, cannot respond fully to that
11:18That, without a legacy, so I think that the knowledge of the new form of inflation is being learned and is being responded to
11:27I'm very positive that this institutional framework and strength of central banks today will take us to the goal where we want to be
11:38Relatively, do you agree? I mean, when you look at complexity and uncertainty in this way, but we forget about it, or is this really a new frontier? I agree with everything Augustine said about institutional progress, but I would say this: we've lived through a period of disinflationary forces around the world
12:01This is, uh, globalization, aging demographics, low productivity, technology enabling all of that, and that’s why we've been in that world, where, uh… Inflation was really not a problem in most of the advanced economies most of the time
12:15Since the pandemic, we've been living in a world where the economy is driven by very different forces, and we know that what we don't know is whether we'll be returning to something that looks more like the past or a little bit like what we had before
12:29We suspect that it'll be some blend
12:31In the meantime, we've had a series of supply shocks
12:33We've experienced very high inflation now across the world, certainly through all the advanced economies, and we're at a point where we're learning to deal with it
12:43Our job is to find price stability and maximum employment, in the case of the Fed, in this new economy with these new conditions
12:50Forces, and it is a very different exercise than the one we've had for the last 25 years; nonetheless, the goals are the same
12:59So I don't know whether, Madame, again, after this volatility, we go back to something that resembles the last 10 years or if it's something else completely
13:09I also agree with most of the points that Augustine made, and we don't have to agree between us because we always do, but I don't think that we're going to go back to that environment of low inflation
13:25I think that there are forces that have been unleashed as a result of the pandemic, as well as this massive geopolitical shock that we're facing now, which are going to change the picture and the landscape within which we operate
13:37I look at our euro area, for instance, we have record low unemployment; we have inflation expectations, however, and, with a pinch of salt, as was discussed at the last panel, which was excellent, we have inflation expectations that are much, much higher than they were
13:58That’s for the internal matters
14:00But if you look at the rest of the world, a lot of the movements that we've experienced in the last 20 years were predicated on globalization, on the breaking down of supply chains, on the reduction of costs, on just-in-time logistics—that has changed and will probably change continuously
14:24Markets are going up right now; it’s a system that we are not certain about at this point in time, which is much debated—what’s going on, some would..
14:38Argue that globalization will continue in a different format
14:39Some would argue that the place where you manufacture or provide services is going to be determined by different factors than just cost
15:01It will be about cost as usual, but what the heck, it's also going to be about where do I locate my services, where do I employ people, where do I reduce my costs, and are those areas geographical as well? The place where you manufacture or provide services is going to be determined by different factors than just cost
15:32It will be about cost as usual, but it's also going to be about where do I locate my services, where do I employ people, where do I reduce my costs, and are those areas geographical as well
15:44Geographical as well as political, actually foes or friends, and do I have some predictability about the future of my production or the providing of my services? And the third factor that is going to change the scene from my vintage point is the way in which we produce
16:00I think that the shift we're observing in Europe, certainly towards a green transition, is also going to change dramatically the way in which we operate
16:11All those forces are going to produce inflationary or deflationary impacts that you know are still to be measured
16:19But in the short run, I have some ideas as to where it's heading, and we'll get back to those ideas shortly
16:24Governor, do you see this as a sea change for the longer-term future? Yes, I do
16:28I mean, I— I..
16:32First of all, we have to say that unquestionably, of course, our task is to return to low inflation
16:37But I think, if we see this, you know, every day, that in fulfilling that, I swear it's not my servant
16:42Everything's green on my side
16:48What can turn out to be a structural change, and some of it, I think, I would say it's already happening
16:53So I think COVID is leaving a structural legacy on labor markets and the way they behave, which we're already beginning to see
17:06I mean, I think suddenly the European security situation has changed
17:11It'd be buffering to us
17:14I just want to make sure that you guys know it's not me
17:18Christine was saying that's affecting supply chains, it's affecting the resilience of the whole
17:25Supply systems, and I probably mentioned, um, climate change, Francine
17:34I mean, I always say that this is not because some people sometimes say there's not some sort of diligent activity about central banks
17:42Yeah, the reason that we're not—yeah, we're not in the lead on it, clearly
17:44But the reason we have to take it seriously is because it is affecting our world, and actually, it will get worse
17:52That's a sad trap of life
17:54Um, and we have to, here we have to, in a sense, understand that, and understand, you know, the reason that we're not—yeah, we're not in the lead on it, clearly
18:03But the reason we have to take it seriously is because it is affecting our world, and actually, it will get worse
18:10I mean, that's a sad fact of life
18:13Um, and we have to, here we..
18:16We have to, in a sense, understand that and understand what effects it will have and how we respond to it
18:18These structural changes, you know, are very important in our landscape
18:25As these complexities, or as these, you know, sands are shifting, slower growth—much slower growth—is an inevitable trade-off from trying to deal with inflation
18:35So I would say that, if what we see, for example, is the redivision of the world into competing geopolitical and economic camps, a reversal of globalization, that certainly sounds like lower productivity and lower growth
18:50In many parts of this side of that, you see aging demographics, so a shrinking workforce, and you see economies that are growing more slowly and whose..
18:59Workforces are not expanding, so that's, um, that's certainly a possible outcome, and I think probably to some extent a likely outcome
19:07In the shorter term, can the economy, you know, can the U.S
19:11economy actually deal with, you know, a possible onslaught of interest rate hikes? The U.S
19:16economy is actually in pretty strong shape
19:18If you look back a year, the U.S
19:21economy grew more than five and a half percent
19:23It was really the big reopening here, and so we had expected this year that that growth would moderate to a more sustainable path
19:31We also, of course, are raising interest rates, and the aim of that is to slow growth down so that supply will have a chance to catch up
19:38We hope that that growth can still remain positive, but if..
19:43So, if you look at it, the strength of the economy: households are in very strong financial shape
19:48They've still got a lot of excess savings from, you know, forced saving due to not being able to travel and things like that, and also from fiscal transfers
19:56So, households are overall not, not every household—uh, and not the ones at the lower end of the income spectrum—but overall, in a strong state
20:02The same thing is true of businesses: very, very low rates and defaults, and things like that, with lots of cash on their balance sheets
20:10The labor market is tremendously strong, still averaging very, very high job growth per month
20:15So, overall, the U.S
20:17economy is in, uh, is well positioned to withstand your monetary policy, we think it, but is— It automatically involves a trade-off between fighting inflation or taking care of the economy, and how far you are willing to go with interest rate hikes
20:30So, I guess I'd say it this way: our aim is to have growth moderate
20:35It's sort of a necessary adjustment that needs to happen so that, again, supply can catch up
20:40It could be supply of workers, or it could be that it's time for the supply chains to improve
20:46So, the sense of that is that if we can get supply and demand right now are really out of balance in many parts of the U.S
20:52economy, with the labor market being a big example of that
20:56We need to get them better in balance so that inflation can come down, and that's the aim of what we're doing now
21:01We don't have precision tools, obviously, in monetary policy
21:03Policy is famously a blunt tool, that is our aim, that is our intention
21:06We think that there are pathways for us to achieve that, to achieve the path back to two percent inflation, while still maintaining a strong labor market
21:16We believe we can do that; that is our aim
21:17There's no guarantee that we can do that
21:21It's obviously something that's going to be quite challenging
21:23I would also say that the events of the last few months have made it significantly more difficult, particularly considering the war in Ukraine, which has added tremendously to inflationary pressures around food, energy commodities, agricultural chemicals, and industrial chemicals
21:41The pathways have gotten narrower; nonetheless, that is our aim, and we believe that there are pathways to achieve that
21:47President, can you talk to us about this fine balancing act for Europe and what that means? You know what I find extraordinary is that, about 10 to 15 minutes into this debate, we haven't really used the word energy, and certainly in this part of the world, the energy shock that we have suffered—our suffering—and probably will continue to suffer has had a major impact
22:08I think this is not specific to Europe, but there is certainly a dependency of European countries, and the euro area is a case in point, on external supply from fossil fuels, and that has had a major impact on prices
22:27It is certainly a very driving force, a strong driving force of the inflation that we have experienced in the last few months
22:35This has been, as you said, Jay, exacerbated by the war, and I think the proximity of Europe relative to the war scene has had a probably more significant impact on the price of both energy and food, which are clearly very important components to take into account, including in inflation expectations, as was discussed earlier
22:59But we also have, you know, from that, a series of supply shocks that are hitting the European economy
23:06We also have this recovery that is very much underway, which is certainly driven by services because of the swing that..
23:16We've observed from goods to services, which is also supporting the economy
23:22We have very low unemployment numbers, high employment participation
23:29Some of it is more attributable to public service jobs than the private sector, although that is also back to pre-pandemic levels
23:36We have a couple of other items, such as significant savings that are still available for use, hopefully, or not, and we have fiscal policy
23:50The fiscal policy we are seeing at the moment is roughly in the range of one percent of GDP, but you know, we need to see how fiscal authorities move and where they move
24:05We certainly hope that they will move in a targeted, temporary way to ensure that they support the most..
24:12Vulnerable and not in a broad, uh, and discriminated fashion, as we have unfortunately observed so far
24:19And why do you prefer actually the more gradual approach? So yesterday, you were trained in 25 basis points for monetary policy
24:25For monetary policy—don't forget, I didn't say gradual, full stop
24:29I said gradual, but optional, and I think it's a combination of the two that actually matters for us
24:35You know, moving gradually is certainly appropriate in times of very high uncertainty, but as the uncertainty clears on various accounts, we will have to be less gradual and give more weight to optionality
24:55But we have both of them in combination at the moment—optionality being also a very critical aspect
25:02Of our determination, Mr
25:04Costner
25:07You've been pretty vocal, actually, on what central banks should do
25:09Do you think they need to cut faster? Well, I mean, I think everyone should react according to their own circumstances
25:16What is very satisfactory at this stage is that pretty much all central banks have a starting address as they address the issues
25:27I mean, one way of dealing with this is through words, recognizing you have a problem, saying that you will address it, and pretty much all have already entered into the field of action
25:39So central banks have been acting accordingly
25:42I have to say, the level of interest rates worldwide has adjusted; the level of interest rates, if you look at them from the yield curves, they..
25:51The increases have been quite substantial
25:53We can say that global financial conditions have tightened significantly because we don't have to— we, we, we shouldn't forget that this has become a global phenomenon
26:05I mean, inflation around the world has been rising; now, each country, as Christine and Jerome Powell have been saying, faces different dynamics of inflation
26:20I see some of you guys are having issues
26:23If you experience some delay, you can just refresh your screen, and the live stream will pop back up, and it should be as close to real-time as possible
26:32I appreciate it, and I hope I earn your thumbs up
26:35Thank you
26:38It's been a full transition from a low inflation environment to a high one
26:41Inflation environment where this high inflation gets entrenched, and for that, basically, you need to prevent these vicious cycles from kicking in
26:49Pretty much all of them are addressing it in these vicious cycles
26:58Labor markets are very important, and labor markets are very different across the world
27:06Therefore, I think there is no one recipe or one remedy for all, but what I’m seeing is that pretty much all central banks have been addressing the issue in a forceful, determined way according to their own circumstances
27:19Mr
27:21Custom, does that mean that you would be in favor of, you know, front-loading hikes so that it's a powerful message, maybe to people, you know, for a lot of the citizens? Well, let me, let me give you a good example
27:33And to introduce a little bit of a different flavor here, I come from emerging markets, and if you see how emerging markets have been acting this time around compared to other periods of very high interest rate increases in advanced economies or the expectations of fast increases in interest rates, they have acted quite well
27:55You know, I mean, if you see the more recent episode was that taper tantrum, where many emerging markets suffered dramatically with the expectation of higher interest rates
28:07My own country, Mexico, and several of our crises have been associated with rapid increases in U.S
28:16interest rates, but we have learned our lesson
28:18So, what you see is that emerging markets traditionally were the ones who would..
28:24They increased interest rates at the very end; now, they started very early on
28:30What you can see is that they have managed to keep their exchange rates quite stable
28:34Traditionally, in emerging markets, exchange rates were a very important source of inflation, so now they're still facing the sources of inflation from commodity shocks, from energy, and from global aggregate demand, but not the ones that could have been caused by movements in the exchange rate
28:57There you see that different central banks can act at different paces
29:02For them, it really was critical to act forcefully and very early in the game, but those are not the circumstances you see now
29:11So, I would say that..
29:17Each central bank is playing its own game because the circumstances are different
29:26There's about three more minutes until the market opens, just a heads-up for you guys
29:34We opened the door for a 50 basis point rate increase
29:41Well, I think the way I would frame that very much goes back to what the others have been saying, and as Christine was saying, we are being hit by a very large national real income shock that is coming from outside
29:49There is uncertainty around two parts of that in terms of marginal policy: one is, of course, the eventual scale of it, because it's unfortunately still evolving; secondly, the impact of it—precisely how it passes through into the economy and what the effects of it are, but the scale
30:01The shock is very substantial and, in and of itself, will have a significant effect because it will reduce domestic demand, and it will pass through into the labor market and into inflation
30:15Monetary policy, of course, has a very important role to play because it works alongside that shock
30:22It's very important, as we said, to pay attention to the language we use
30:24Monetary policy is also there to tackle the second-round effects as they come through, such as price setting and wage setting
30:33The message we conveyed, and it was reflected in the language of our last meeting, is that if we see greater persistence of inflation and its second-round effects, then we will act more accordingly
30:44Forcefully, and we will have to act more forcefully now
30:47In terms of your precise question, what does that mean? Well, of course, I'm not going to say what it means at our next meeting because, you know, our next meeting is still a month away
30:54A lot, a lot will happen between then
30:56What I would say to you is that, of course, it leaves options on the table, and that's very deliberate, very deliberate
31:02I mean, I want people to take a message away from that; it's quite clear that as we respond to this shock, we want to have those options on the table for precisely the reason that Augustine has just said
31:15There will be circumstances in which we will have to do more
31:20We're not there yet in terms of the next meeting; we're still a month away
31:21But that's on the table, but you shouldn't assume it's the only thing on the table
31:25That's the key point
31:29But governor, for you personally, would you be leaning towards a 50 basis point increase? No, because I'm going to see what happens in the next month
31:32You know, I'm afraid one thing that is only present in our system is that we make policy meeting by meeting, and there's always another meeting
31:40If you can only guarantee one thing in monetary policy, it's that there's another meeting
31:46Is it actually annoying that the market, you know, that markets or reporters always try to understand some of this very personal thinking on the interpretation? For example, sure, Jay Powell
31:53I mean, I tried my luck with Governor Bailey, but how do..
32:00How should we be thinking about this? Like, is it, you know, market reporters trying to really always get just that nugget of news? Yeah, well, certainly there's a lot of that going on, I would say, but no, I guess I would continue to put a more constructive spin on it
32:12The markets and market participants are always wondering what we're going to do; they're always wondering what we're thinking
32:19And when market moves happen, that's really a constructive thing
32:24It's never going to be exactly what we're thinking, but nonetheless, it's constructive that the market, in effect, is doing your work for you if it correctly understands
32:32You're all right, Mark, you just opened, that's a maybe more constructive
32:36In terms of understanding what you're saying right now, I would say that by and large, since last fall, when we pivoted to raise rates and get to where we are now, markets have been pretty well aligned
32:52I wouldn't specify any particular day, but they are fairly well aligned with our expectations
32:56Currently, the market pricing is quite close to the summary of economic projections from about two weeks ago
33:04My colleagues and I projected a policy rate between 3% and 3.5% by the end of this year, and markets are broadly in that range
33:14For next year, we expect a rate between 3.5% and 4%
33:18Broadly speaking, I think it's working, and you know, we're all, everything we say in terms of forward guidance, to your point, is always going to be conditional on the things that happen between now, when you give the guidance, and when the actual event happens
33:32Sometimes markets can forget about the conditionality part, but is there a problem actually with forward guidance in this kind of environment, because it gets priced in straight away? It sometimes feels like markets lead and central banks follow because of the forward guidance, but it doesn't really feel that way at all from where I'm sitting
33:49It feels quite the opposite
33:50And no, as I said, I think this is—I think people will look back on
33:55This period, and say that we were able to have financial conditions tighten quite substantially
34:01We've only had three meetings at which we raised rates
34:04Nonetheless, the forward rate curve is pricing in, you know, a rate path that looks a lot like the summary of economic projections that my colleagues and I submitted in June
34:13So, that's a good thing—that's the market understanding and finding credible what we're writing down
34:19Of course, it's all highly conditional, but nonetheless, I’d say that's a positive thing
34:22 Yeah, do you agree with them again? Is it a positive? There it goes
34:25Well, I would agree
34:27From our vantage point, we are on a normalization path
34:30We have seen signals that very..
34:32Clearly, we've started that back in December, and you know, the key assessment is the evaluation of the medium-term outlook, the variables that we look at, the data that we analyze
34:43I think everyone is aware of that, and most people operate based on the same data and information
34:50I believe that our reaction function is what truly matters; as long as that is understood, the fact that we are on this normalization path—gradual but flexible, and data-dependent—is clear
34:59We have indicated very clearly what is likely to happen in July, and yes, what is likely to happen in September, and in the path that we are on, I think the markets have full understanding and appreciation of this
35:25What we are doing, how we're doing it, and then the level of uncertainty as it clears will probably help us towards this optionality that I was describing earlier on
35:34Regarding the government, do you agree, actually, with the market functioning so far, as they broadly understand what the central bank is trying to do? Yes, I think they have
35:46I think the tricky thing that you see, certainly, I would say we see, is that, you know, we can obviously see direct market pricing—markets still dropping, market probability curves which price in what we're going to do
36:00We also, as you probably know, just started doing this recently—publishing a market survey at the same time as the meeting
36:06That actually shows a lower path of rates, so we spend quite a bit of time..
36:12Understanding the difference between those two, I don't think it's actually hard to explain because I think the underlying reason is that the market curve prices in the risk, and the risk is on the upside, and I would agree with that
36:26So, whereas the survey is a straightforward point-to-point number, the curve has got the risk included
36:32So, I think, for me, the best way to look at that difference is the risk
36:36But that risk, in that sense, is important to see from that perspective
36:42Yes, absolutely, not to get ahead of households or to become big-headed about it, but there was a point made in the previous panel, which we all agreed on over lunch, that it's not… It's not a science; what we're doing involves an element of art
36:59I know whether you characterize it as art or not, it is not just driven by science, and we know that models have had their shortfalls, particularly at turning points
37:09So there is also that element that is somewhat privileged in our deliberations within our various governing councils and FOMC meetings, and what have you
37:16Yes
37:22Can I just add, we're talking a lot about markets and how we react to markets
37:29Actually, to Christine's point, the way we're thinking about it is what policy setting do we need to implement to achieve the goals for the real economy that we are working on
37:39That's what our focus is—it's not about trying to manipulate markets for their own sake
37:41Match up with the markets
37:44We're thinking, what's the right policy based on our, you know, the incoming data
37:48And, and that, again, that's what we're thinking about
37:50Yeah
37:52And I want to go back to the real conversation a second, but Mr
37:55Carson, what do you make of some of the, you know, what we've seen in market volatility? Is it just a readjustment? Is it a misunderstanding? Is there something that, you know, could turn unclear? Well, you know, if markets are responding, also to the circumstances, I think as policymakers, to some extent, have been surprised because there has been news that really is news and that was very difficult to anticipate
38:22Markets are doing the same, and we have to, and you know this very well, the markets are turning
38:31Around very big positions, they're adjusting their portfolios
38:34We are talking about a circumstance where, for very, very long periods of time, we had a tailwind in the bond markets
38:44You know, we had very low and falling real rates of interest, falling nominal interest rates, so trading bonds was relatively simple
38:56We had very big expectations for earnings into the future, a lot of interest in different sectors of the economy
39:02Quick little heads-up: TQG showing signs of a potential support
39:08It just hit lows of 24.16 for those who care to pay attention to it
39:13Just a little update for you, and central banks need to do their work, not as an objective in itself, but as all these central bankers have been saying—to fix a problem
39:29It is inflation, and then continue, which has a much better world moving forward
39:33So, there are certain circumstances in markets where frictions are bigger
39:38Trading conditions are not always the same
39:40I mean, you get circumstances of crowded trades because, at some point, the same type of investors are trying to do the same operation, and liquidity is not necessarily there
39:52Something that, for me, has been very positive is that central banks, the leading central banks, have been able to implement their monetary policy adjustments without really generating such big..
40:08So, any sort of market disruptions? Markets have been performing well, liquidity is there, market making is going forward
40:17Yes, there have been some disruptions
40:20I'm not talking about the cyber world, that's another, another fish or how do you say it, another kettle of fish
40:32But you know, I think I heard that the markets have been working really well, and yes, behind the actions, crazy
40:42And so far, I would say so, yes
40:44But at what point? And I think, to make the last point on markets, is how much do central banks need to deal with markets? Mr
40:55Carson, to see, you know, to, I guess, impact the real economy
40:58How much do we deal with them? Yeah, I mean, how much do you need to focus on markets to make sure that the real economy is quite strong? Well, I mean, we spend a lot of time analyzing markets, and all of that is fed into what impact those changes have on inflation
41:19outlook, I mean, that's why we do it with the second vote, with the second objective being the average inflation rate, rightly said, of course, about market stability, because after all, we've also got financial stability obligations and responsibilities
41:28I mean, I think if I get back to the panel this morning, though briefly, I think the point was rightly made that it's turning points that are the hardest, often to read, and it's not just for us, it's for markets as well
41:40And I think, certainly, when I look at the UK economy at the moment, you know, it's very clear that the economy is now starting to slow
41:45We are at something of a turning point in that respect, and I think the fact that markets are having to take that on board, and that the data..
41:53It can be quite choppy at that sort of point in time, which is reflected in some of the short-term movements in markets
42:01Now, I do think one of, you know, one of the essential things for central banks is to look through those short-term fluctuations
42:05We have to extract the information and then look through it because obviously our objectives are much further ahead in that sense, in terms of low inflation and returning to our target
42:16But in terms of taking the information out of markets, yeah, it's a very important activity for us
42:21 Paul Krugman, I think, on Friday said that the number one risk to the US economy is that the Fed could overdo it because inflation could come down as quickly as it went up
42:31Is that really possible? Well, we'd certainly welcome..
42:36Inflation is coming down more quickly than expected, and we would take that into account in our policy
42:40As I mentioned earlier, we are very strongly committed to using our tools to get inflation to come down
42:49The way to do that is to slow down growth, ideally keep it positive, and as I mentioned, supply and demand need to get back into balance
42:56That’s what we are trying to accomplish
42:57Is there a risk? Certainly, there is a risk, but I wouldn’t agree that it is the biggest risk to the economy
43:03I think the bigger mistake to make, let's put it that way, would be to fail to restore price stability
43:09And, as Augustine was speaking to earlier, a low inflation environment or regime is what we’ve had
43:17In which inflation is low and no one pays any attention to inflation, and that's called rational inattention because it doesn't matter
43:27When there's a big inflation spike, if it's going to go away, we would ignore it and sort of play through it because it'll go away and it won't affect people's understanding
43:37But to the extent there are series of shocks, it does become rational for people to pay more and more attention
43:44I think the clock is kind of running on how long you will remain in a low inflation regime, where most of the changes in inflation are actually idiosyncratic as opposed to broadly across the macroeconomy
43:55So the risk is that because of multiple..
43:58Multiplicity of shocks, you transition, you start to transition into a higher inflation regime, and our job is literally to prevent that from happening
44:06We will prevent that from happening; we will not allow a transition from a low inflation environment into a high inflation environment
44:13Is there a point where actually inflation expectations get de-anchored? Is that, that's another way of saying it, or thinking about it? It's the same thing, same idea
44:22The thing is, you never really know; there's no way to know in real time
44:26We all study inflation expectations very carefully, and if you look across the broad scope of short-, medium-, and long-term expectations, you'd still say that we have credibility that they're well
44:36Anchored, but there's a clock running here, where we have high inflation running now for more than a year
44:42And you know, no one should assume it would be bad risk management to just assume that those long-term inflation expectations will remain accurate indefinitely in the face of persistent high inflation
44:52So, we're not doing that as a risk management measure
44:56We are, you know, working very hard on the part that we can influence, which is the demand side
45:01We can't affect the supply side really, but we can affect large parts of the U.S
45:04economy where there's surplus demand, and that's really our focus
45:08Is there a data point that you watch for to actually see whether a decline is occurring, or you know, where do… You see it first, basically, if it's spiraling, not to see it at all
45:15We can't
45:23Once we start seeing that, you know, the cost of dealing with higher inflation goes up so much that you find yourself in a higher inflation regime that you just can't allow to happen
45:31So, if you're starting to see serious de-anchoring of, and we're not of, longer-term inflation expectations, then you're behind
45:38I think right now we're doing what we need to do, which is to move expeditiously into restrictive territory fairly quickly
45:48I think that's what we need to be doing so that we don't find ourselves in that situation
45:54President Lagarde, what's the situation like in Europe? We had a
45:57Pretty ugly CPI number from Spain this morning
45:59Yeah, numbers from Germany that are below what economists expected
46:02So I think it's, it's a question of waiting until the 1st of July when we have a consolidated number for the whole of the Euro area, and we'll see because we are data-dependent
46:12But, you know, just like Jay, our mission, our mandate, our job is to provide price stability, which we have defined as two percent
46:24So, we currently have inflation at, you know, forecasted at 6.8% for this year, moving down to 3.5% and 2.1% in 2024
46:33All of that is above target throughout the entire projection period, and we need to do what we have to do, which is to bring it back to two percent, and we shall do so
46:47Now, of course, we..
46:49They are not exactly in the same situation as Augustine was saying
46:51We need to look at our markets, we need to look at forces, we need to look at how the uncertainty that we have on the horizon is going to clear
47:00I think that, in that respect, what happens on the energy front, what happens on the war front, unfortunately, what happens in relation to wage negotiations, and our inflation expectations continue to stay anchored, as they have re-anchored other elements that we will be looking at very carefully in the job we have to do to bring inflation back to two percent over the medium term
47:11That's the same determination
47:22Yeah, Governor Bailey
47:34Well, I agree, I mean, I like Christine
47:37I am concerned about..
47:41How the the war front and the, uh, energy supply front are going to evolve, I think that is the major risk
47:45I think, by the way, if I say, I mean, we had an inflation number out last week
47:49What I thought was that, on the surface, it was pretty much in line with what we expected
47:54Underneath the surface, there was a sign that we saw a shift in the makeup of inflation from the good supply shock to the energy and food shock, which I would sort of characterize as the post-COVID supply chain shock moving more into the, sadly, into the Russia-Ukraine world
48:08And, uh, obviously, we watch that very, very, very carefully as we go through the year
48:17As we've said in our last monetary policy report, you know, unfortunately, there is going to be a further..
48:22There will be a step-up in UK inflation later this year because that’s a product of the way the energy price cap and domestic energy prices are set, based on the data that we’ve observed over the last few months
48:33We have to take that into account, but as Christine and Jay have said, the key for us is to bring inflation back down to target, and that’s what we will do
48:43Hindsight is a beautiful thing, I know, and I also know the ECB published a paper saying what you got wrong on inflation
48:50Going forward, Mr
48:57Carson, how do we need to look at inflation differently? For example, in the US, and I lost the same to Chair Powell, did we miscalculate the impact this would have on inflation? I think it’s a..
49:05A very healthy exercise to actually assess why you were off the mark, and, uh, you know, if all of you actually do the same exercise, you will probably realize that, for most of you, energy was vastly underestimated, and that, you know, bottlenecks were also expected to clear much faster than everybody had anticipated
49:24I don't think the ECB is alone in that camp
49:26Yeah, we're the first ones
49:27That's a good question
49:30So they just asked, when is the next? Let me go ahead and find it
49:34When is the next big economic data report? So, the CPI reports, for those that are unaware, are released around the 10th and the 11th of every month
49:39So, just make sure that you're aware of that, especially for this upcoming month, for the month of..
49:46July to see if we actually saw peaked inflation
49:48If we see that inflation has peaked, that should act as a positive catalyst
49:52And for those who are unaware, I put the VIX over here
49:56Anytime that the VIX rises, that means that fear is rising
50:03When fear rises, markets drop
50:10So, as you can see again, it's good to understand that correlation, which to some extent had kept, I would say, for some time, giving the indication that inflation could not rise that fast
50:17We faced many, many limitations like that
50:22I mean, I have to be very transparent, last year we tried to crank out some numbers on inflation, and we put them out there
50:30Here is one of the researchers who did the job, and he had a hard time cranking up higher numbers, as much as he tried
50:42We had it at the end of the day wrong, and part of me, I'm not living up to him
50:47You know, it was my responsibility too, but that was the toolbox we have now
50:55If I find that there are many different hidden relationships or very key aspects about inflation expectations, expectation formations, the situation in labor markets that can give you nonlinearities, you know
51:11Therefore, we have a very nice model for normal circumstances, but as it has been said periodically here or in a reiterated fashion, you know, a turning point is what is very, very difficult
51:29So, we have entered into dynamics that are very different
51:34I think where there needs to be a lot of work is, and we started doing some of the work recently in..
51:40The goal is to understand much better what is happening with inflation under the hood, why some relative prices eventually become more contagious, to use at work and start spreading around, why some shocks are more durable than others, why there are some prices that generate more spillovers, what determines the frequency of firms' price revisions, which certainly increases with inflation
52:21The new technology that we have talked about— I mean, now we have Amazon and all these markets that probably were not there, certainly were not there when CPI calculations were made a few years ago
52:52So, there are a lot of things that we need to do to catch up, and I think it's a challenge for us
53:10As we are accumulating all this information, I'm sure it will also give us, and he's already given us, more leading indicators of what inflation is doing, and that will be very, very helpful to calibrate the response
53:28So yes, I mean, I think inflation will evolve
53:34The inflationary pressures we are facing today are very different than the ones we had in the 1970s, and I'm sure that the bouts of inflation you might see in some decades forward will also be very, very different
53:50So we need to preserve that nimbleness analytically to approach, and also be very mindful that we need the right instruments
54:01Another thing that has been very useful is that the different banks have been working with the central..
54:09Everyone has been able to adapt their instruments to monetary policy according to the circumstances
54:16Does everybody on the panel think they understand inflation? Because you could also, again, going back to Krugman's point, that has been very useful—that the different central banks have been able to adapt their instruments to monetary policy according to the circumstances
54:42Does everybody on the panel think they understand inflation better now than they did four or five months ago? Because you could also, again, going back to Krugman's point, can I say something? Yeah, I mean, certainly I believe that we understand it a little bit better, but not fully
54:57There is a click, a sort of a..
55:01I won't say black box, but certainly gray box, where I think in the profession of economics we need to do better, and that's understanding aggregate supply
55:13We are, at least I myself consider myself an economist that was trained under the dominance of aggregate demand, and we know a lot about how to get demand response to interest rates, how they respond to income, and how monetary policy and fiscal policy have a transmission mechanism to aggregate demand
55:36But, you know, we usually take aggregate supply as given
55:39It's very complex, very, very complex, and I think we need to understand aggregate supply much better
55:48One confusion that is out there today, I think, is that the flexibilities, or the flexibility, or the The inelasticity of supply in the short term is there, but that doesn't necessarily mean it makes it the same as a bottleneck
56:03What is the difference in how that impacts inflation? I think the understanding of aggregate supply, which also includes labor markets, is of the essence
56:15So, from the challenges we are considering moving forward, for me, that is one that is very important
56:23I like the idea of a great box sectoral suppliers
56:25It's very important that we've had a series of supply shocks
56:36This is the point, I mean, I— the word "transient" has become discredited, but it isn't really, in one sense, because that was built on the idea of a single supply shock
56:43You know, that supply shock can work its way through, and the duration of that supply shock can..
56:50The response often be shorter than the response of the transmission response of marginal policy
56:53Now, we've not been in that; we've been in a world where we've had a series of supply shocks
56:57I mean, we look at our shocks, yes, we had an initial demand shock from COVID, but then we had, you know, supply shocks with the supply chain recovery problems
57:05We've had, obviously, a very serious supply shock coming from energy and the war, and we've had a low market shock in the UK because those forces reduced in size
57:14And it's, as Jay was saying, how you deal with a series of supply shocks—large supply shocks with no air gap between them—which, of course, feeds through into expectations because, when you put them all together, they're not transitory in the..
57:27In the traditional sense of the term, one way to say it would be that we, I think, now understand better how little we actually understand
57:35No, you know, honestly, this was unpredicted
57:40I was looking at our, um, at the time of our June meeting, one year ago, of the 35 people who file with this survey from professional forecasters, 34 of them had inflation below 4%
57:54Last year, of course, it was way above 4%, so really, everyone had the same model, which was the Phillips curve model, and it was just not capable of predicting high inflation
58:05What it was missing, however, was something that has been completely absent in the data for 40 years — which is basically a collapse of the supply side
58:11You know, the US economy is famously adaptable; it does, it has..
58:15The minimum of structural rigidities, all that kind of thing, and yet here they are
58:21So, what you had was very strong demand but hitting effectively a vertical supply curve
58:25Usually, when people want to buy cars—which they really did because they didn't want to ride on public transportation—rates were low, and they had all these savings, the car companies would produce more cars and might raise prices too
58:37In this case, they couldn't make as many cars, so what you got was a straight-up vertical supply curve with a big price increase
58:44But I also think, in principle at least, that this process could work in reverse, so that as demand comes down, inflation could actually decrease more quickly than would be expected
58:57Would you know there are other relationships that people think about when they consider how to get inflation down, which are more typical of a simply overheated economy and entrenched inflation—the sacrifice ratio and those kinds of things? But I think this could be, I don't know that it will be, but it could be different because it's just that process working in reverse, potentially
59:14Do you see that process, um, you know, the president working in reverse? So actually, I know it's different because what we're seeing at the moment is more this swing of substitution that was described earlier in the day, where because of COVID, everybody suddenly decided to stop using any kind of services
59:36Particularly if there was social distancing about it and people moved to goods, hence the car industry in the US, and stationary bicycles rather than fitness clubs
59:44Now, we are seeing this sort of substitution back to services, where people have been deprived of restaurants, hotels, transportation, theaters, and all the rest of it
59:56That side of the economy is currently booming and is sustaining the recovery, despite the various shocks that Andrew was alluding to
01:00:09So, a quick little heads-up: you guys can see my charts on the left-hand side
01:00:14TQQQ is showing signs of an uptrend
01:00:16I'm adding a little bit more to my position size
01:00:18I know I have a couple of our Learn, Plan, Profit traders in the chat
01:00:22Uh, so just making you guys aware of what I'm deciding to do
01:00:26Also, a heads-up: we are experiencing that resistance at around $25 a share, so the direction is not super clear
01:00:31If you wanted to wait a little bit longer for clearer direction, being 100% conservative during uncertain times would be useful
01:00:41So, just an update for you guys for the moment, more in the scenario planning world than in the remodeling of what's going to happen with gas prices
01:00:45Mr
01:00:50Carson is talking about emerging markets a little bit
01:00:54First, you know, it's— I don't know whether they're coming into their stride because they're used to the volatility, but there are huge implications, of course, of what the dollar is doing
01:00:58Yes, of course
01:01:03I mean, I think at the..
01:01:07At the end of the day, a very strong dollar has an impact on many of them, with very tight global financial conditions
01:01:11So far, again, as I mentioned, the exchange rates are actually a really good question
01:01:17We have someone asking why the market is rising
01:01:21So QQQ is up barely anything; the overall Nasdaq market is pretty much barely in the green
01:01:26One of the things that you must understand is that markets rise when things begin to not get worse
01:01:35Right, as soon as we hear any form of news or any speculation about anything, the markets drop instantly
01:01:40The stock market is unlike many other markets, such as real estate, where it takes time for changes to be factored in
01:01:48It’s not until a couple of months later that we see that delayed effect
01:01:53Reaction: the stock market is different
01:01:55If things are not getting worse, then they're getting better, and that's what we tend to experience
01:02:01COVID is a perfect example of this, where things were not necessarily getting better, but they just weren't getting worse
01:02:08That's when we began to see markets recover
01:02:10So please make sure that you understand, sometimes it doesn't make sense to people, but it's because things get factored in instantly that markets tend to recover
01:02:20I just wanted to explain that as best I could, based on the information in their basket of data from advanced economies
01:02:25That, of course, reflects itself in more social needs, and many governments, according to their capacities, are taking actions accordingly
01:02:37Programs to assist people, so at the end of the day, they're on a tight situation
01:02:43They have to manage things very prudently
01:02:47I think they're, as if we compare these with other periods, emerging markets are better prepared, but I think the challenges are still there
01:03:02I think a big challenge for many emerging markets, including I would say China, is how to get growth back at a much healthier pace
01:03:17You know, I think the growth in emerging markets has slowed down, not just now, but even before the pandemic
01:03:26To some extent, the virtues of globalization have sort of run out of steam, and therefore, the relevance of structural reforms is very important
01:03:41We need to look much better into how to get..
01:03:45Growth is occurring independently of the influence of fiscal and monetary policy, and to a large extent, that also applies to advanced economies
01:03:55Thank you
01:04:05Um, Governor Bailey, do you think inflation in the UK will be higher and will remain elevated for longer than in other parts of the world? Well, I mean, as Christina said, we are going to be affected by the shock that Christine described in terms of energy prices in Europe because, essentially, it's a common shock geographically across Europe
01:04:16Um, use that term carefully because it's a single, particularly for gas, a single supply system
01:04:22So, although we don't actually import a large amount of gas from Russia, it doesn't, in a sense, impact the price outside that particular system
01:04:30So, in that sense, really similar
01:04:37I think, where I would, as things stand, expect testing twenty-five dollars a share for TPKQ rate is because we do have, as I mentioned earlier, this price capping system and domestic energy prices
01:04:45At the moment, it's a six-month cap, but there is a proposal to take it down to three months
01:04:51But other things being equal, you would imagine that would put a bit more persistence in the inflation
01:04:58And of course, we will have to explain that, because if we can observe a downward path of underlying inflation, we have to be very careful to explain that if that's how it emerges
01:05:05But does Brexit actually make bringing down inflation harder? Well, Brexit, I should say, it's very hard at the moment
01:05:16Here we go
01:05:17To separate the immediate effects of Brexit and the immediate effects of COVID, when I look at trade and when I look at the labor market, particularly, you can see effects taking place
01:05:28But you can see that COVID and Brexit are having some reflection
01:05:31The reason I say that is because in England, for some time now, there has been a sort of Brexit effect path
01:05:40Do you guys see this correlation? When the VIX begins to drop, TQQQ begins to rise again
01:05:46We talked about this yesterday and why it's so important to at least understand it
01:05:51You don't have to ever trade off of it again
01:05:53I 100% agree that there's not one indicator that is 100% accurate, but when you're asking the question, how is it that I understand the correlation? When markets tend to peak, I use the VIX, considered as the fear index, as a good reference or if you want to call it an indicator, to have a better understanding of when fear is high or when fear is low
01:06:16Again, this can give me a better understanding of when I can really begin to step on the gas
01:06:23So, for those asking why I started buying TQQQ, it's because I began to see the VIX trade sideways, showing signs of resistance and no longer beginning to rise
01:06:30When the VIX begins to drop, normally the markets begin to recover
01:06:35So, please understand that correlation
01:06:38I just wanted to explain it to you
01:06:40Good and bad movements in the extreme trade—it's one of the many things that go into the analysis process in terms of how we
01:06:47Thinking about the evolution of inflation, I was going to ask you about the dollar and whether that helps with price stability
01:06:53Dollar strength, like Andrew, we don't, we don't, uh, we don't have responsibility for the level of the dollar; that's the elected government's job, that's the Treasury Department's job
01:07:02So it's just another financial condition to us
01:07:05And since our economy, you know, the external sector in our economy is so much smaller than it is for others here, it's not that important
01:07:14But the dollar has been strong, which would tend to be disinflationary, but only at the very, at the very margin
01:07:22I mean, I think what we, what we're seeing these days are adjustments in exchange rates, but I think the way..
01:07:35The thinking of those adjustments in most economies, including emerging market economies, is part of the adjustment process
01:07:45I mean, they are endorsed in the inflation variables
01:07:48For example, the dollar is stronger because the U.S
01:07:52economy is stronger, because interest rates are higher, and also how the shocks around are affecting different economies
01:08:01So, the fact that you have very strong commodity pricing in Europe, with gas and so on, is very logical to think that the real exchange rate will depreciate, and that's part of the adjustment
01:08:17So, I think we're in a world where, in most cases, exchange rates are part of the adjustment, in some cases, particularly in emerging markets
01:08:27It has more of an impact on monetary policy management because the pass-through formula of the exchange rate into prices is much higher than in advanced economies
01:08:40In advanced economies, unless there are huge swings, the impact on the trajectory of inflation is not that relevant
01:08:56Um, was your question to talk about a gray box? What's your gray box? Is there something that you wish you knew that would help in setting my policy? Only one thing
01:09:06Yeah, no, I'd go back to the same thing really, which is what did we get wrong? And that really was looking at these supply-side issues and believing that they would be resolved relatively quickly
01:09:17And then, by that I mean there was..
01:09:21Going to be there, we're going to be vaccinations
01:09:22Everyone would get vaccinated, so the millions of people who dropped out of the labor force would come right back in, so wages wouldn't be under such pressure
01:09:30That didn't happen for a range of reasons
01:09:32It didn't happen, showing signs of support, showing signs of resistance
01:09:35Comes the new shock in the form of the war, but so, it wasn't, it wasn't something wrong with our models because it wasn't in the models at all
01:09:47It was a question of how to assess the persistence of these supply-side shocks
01:09:50And I do think that, to Eitherton's point, they'll be able, and there is a lot of work going on to get smarter about the supply side
01:09:59In the nature of it, though, it was a..
01:10:02Deep in the tail of the risk spectrum, and those are very hard to predict and assess when they come because monetary policy is not an exact science
01:10:09How often do you actually speak on the phone to exchange ideas? Do you call each other and say, "Well, I've done it this way, I can help out," or is part of your job to foster these discussions? Sometimes every two months, you have very deep and open exchanges of views
01:10:36We're sure we speak quite often, quite a lot
01:10:44But you're not going to tell me—president of the ECB decided to apply flexibility to reinvestments from Friday, July 1st
01:10:50What will be the guideposts? I think if you'll allow me, I'd like to come back to why that is, because I..
01:11:02I think that, um, here we go
01:11:10The VIX is dropping once again, and TIK TOK is rising, so we're retesting that same resistance at 25.30
01:11:19A share
01:11:28Just a reminder, let's say 19 for the moment, that member states each have their respective fiscal policies, financial markets, and as a result, our unique monetary policy has to be transmitted throughout this imperfect market, which has no fiscal union, no monetary union, no capital market union
01:11:37As a result, we just have to make sure that our monetary policy stance is actually transmitted throughout the entire Euro area
01:11:46The two of them, I think I used that word—I don't know if it exists in English—but they are consubstantial for our stance
01:11:54To be effective, it has to be transmitted throughout, okay? So, to do that, if we see that there are unwarranted disruptions to that transmission and if our stance is impaired as a result, we need to take action
01:12:14And that is the reason we decided that we would use, as of—you’re right, Friday
01:12:16That’s what I said yesterday—we would use the flexibility in the reinvestment of our Pandemic Emergency Purchase Program redemptions in order to address the potential risk of fragmentation
01:12:32Second, we also decided, and it's work in progress, so I’m not going to comment upon it
01:12:42I know that some would like to have details and understand it for everybody else, and particularly before the Governing Council, what the details of that are
01:12:50The instrument will be, but we decided to reinforce our capacity to properly transmit our monetary policy by devising a new tool that will be considered by the Governing Council of the ECB on July the 21st
01:13:04So don't waste your time asking me for details, criteria, conditions, safeguards
01:13:08All I said is that it has to be effective, it has to be proportional, it has to include the right level of safeguards, and that's all I will say at this point
01:13:18Yeah, how do you direct, and it will be effective and it will be proportional, and it will have safeguards, and it will be there, believe me
01:13:23So how do you direct staff if you're going to try my life one more time? How do you direct staff when they designed this new tool? I said good luck
01:13:28The lady is not
01:13:33Returning is the famous way
01:13:39Um, how do you look at China, Mr
01:13:45Karsten? How should we look at China at the moment? Well, I mean, it is essential that things start improving more quickly in China
01:13:51I mean, certainly, we need the growth that has come from China
01:13:58They play a very important role in the supply chains
01:14:01Many of the tensions seen around the world could be mitigated by higher growth rates worldwide
01:14:12I mean, part of the..
01:14:17the way we have started
01:14:21Alright, guys, I'm going to keep the live stream going
01:14:25I'm just going to take a little break, but one of the things I just wanted to recap for everyone tuning in, especially if you're absolutely new to the..
01:14:33The market, so pretty much, this meeting that we had today is some of the world leaders for different parts of the country, right? We have Jerome Powell representing the Federal Reserve, which of course oversees the United States
01:14:46With that being said, I mean, nothing new has been said
01:14:48Jerome Powell still talks about the tools and only being able to use specific tools in an effort to moderate inflation
01:14:57They all agree that taking inflation head-on was the best approach that they could have taken
01:15:02There are a lot of people in the live chat who agree or disagree with specific things that these individuals are saying, and it's because we can always look back and be like, I mean, I agree with most of you; like, we should have..
01:15:20Not printed as much money, you know, obviously that was going to be a consequence of, you know, we saw this little statistic where, in the past two years, we have printed what is now 80% of the money circulating in the United States, and I think that's pretty insane
01:15:40So yes, there is a lot of money printed
01:15:42Obviously, looking back, there are a lot of different steps that could have been taken in an effort to cushion the type of inflation that we would have experienced, but as they said, I mean, they can't predict the future, right? All they're trying to do now is learn from the mistakes they have made and make an effort to tackle inflation head-on
01:16:03That is why they're taking a super aggressive approach
01:16:08Approach, uh, when raising interest rates, it's an agree to disagree
01:16:11I mean, all they're literally doing is trying to, to the best of their ability, to moderate inflation, and they're doing this head-on
01:16:20It would be more concerning to see how high inflation is and still not take an aggressive approach and effort to alleviate some of that weight
01:16:31They also did say, I mean, there are certain factors such as oil and food, right, for logistical reasons, that are out of their control
01:16:40They can't do anything about supply; all they can do is try to use their tools, such as raising interest rates, to moderate demand
01:16:50By raising interest rates, you make it more or less desirable to want to spend money, therefore it..
01:17:00Encourages people to save money by spending less
01:17:03It allows supply to catch up with demand, so demand is the only thing that they can begin to slow down—an effort for supply to catch up with it
01:17:12I just wanted to make sure I do my job in keeping this very simple, at least as simple as I could possibly do it, for you to have a better understanding of what is being said
01:17:23I understand that it's very, very confusing
01:17:24I hope that it's something that maybe makes a little bit more sense as they continue to talk
01:17:31I'm going to continue to host the live stream, but I'm just going to leave it here for a couple of minutes
01:17:36I hope that I earned your thumbs up
01:17:38I would love to host more of these live streams
01:17:40I don't know if you guys are new to my YouTube channel
01:17:43I upload new videos every single day about the stock market that are designed for complete beginners
01:17:47So, please, if it's not too much to ask, I hope that I’ve earned your thumbs up
01:17:50Please consider subscribing
01:17:52If you are absolutely new to the market and you simply want to connect with other like-minded traders, the first link you can find in the description of this video is my free trading group chat
01:18:06We have over 40,000 members worldwide
01:18:08You don't have to join; it's just an option if you want to stay connected
01:18:10I do trade live every day, so if you want to see what it's like to watch me buy, watch me sell, and share my thought process, I only work with my Learn, Plan, Profit group and I… I pinned it on the actual live chat so you guys can see
01:18:26I pinned a $100 off coupon
01:18:28Again, you don't have to join, but if you've been waiting for a discount to join our trading team and watch me trade live, it's an all-inclusive package
01:18:37It's a one-time payment right now, again, it's $100 off, and yes, it's lifetime access to all the updates as well
01:18:44We're going to be updating the course in just three days, and it's going to cover how to trade during a market recession, risk management during a recession, and provide a few more pointers and tips on what's going on with the Federal Reserve, how interest rates and inflation are related, based on current market conditions
01:19:03So again, everything is linked
01:19:05In the description of this video, I hope to stay connected, and I hope that you guys enjoy this live stream
01:19:11I'm going to leave this up over here, as to data that we are receiving at an accelerated pace, and with a scene that is changing, uh, geopolitically as well as economically
01:19:18Mr
01:19:25Questions, do you think, and I don't want to sound too dumb because I think that there are also good things happening
01:19:31You know, I was reflecting on your comments directly, and you know, think back, uh, December—when was it? December 20th—when we thought that this, this pandemic was going to hit us for the next two years, at least, until such time when vaccination would come to market
01:19:49And vaccination came about in a matter of, you know, nine months
01:19:53Opposed to the three years that it normally takes in the same way everybody expected a couple of weeks ago that the Geneva Agreement of the WTO would be a complete illusion; it would never happen
01:20:01Well, sudden things happen when there is good will, agility, creativity
01:20:06So I have great faith in human inventivity and talent, particularly when it includes women
01:20:14A lot of these problems are happening because the recovery and the expansion have been so much stronger and faster than expected
01:20:26If you look at the U.S
01:20:28labor market, for example, now it's a very good time to be in the labor market
01:20:31You know, there are two job openings effectively for every unemployed person, so people are switching jobs, they're getting..
01:20:38Pay increases — it's, you know, a terrific labor market
01:20:40The problem is that wages are moving up in some areas at levels that are not consistent over time with two percent inflation, so it's kind of overheated
01:20:48Nonetheless, it's a byproduct of a very strong recovery
01:20:53Government pay increases — I mean, the UK is going through a bit of a bumpy ride with a lot of pay increases
01:21:00How do you see that developing? Well, of course, it's a reflection of the inflationary environment we're in at the moment
01:21:10I mean, I'm on record; I said a few months ago — and I'll be careful because I might get it right and precise in what I said — that I think very high pay increases are a concern
01:21:20Trying, and particularly, uh, you know, but as this applies to both pay increases and price setting by companies, if everybody tries to beat the inflation—especially the version we're having, which is this imported inflation stock, which we just can't avoid—then it will set off the second-round effects
01:21:38Of course, yes, we are seeing some of that tension unfold
01:21:44I would have to note that, I would say, more people seem to be agreeing with me today than we were doing several months ago, but that's not the point
01:21:51The point is, yes, I think it was likely that we would see this, but I think I have to say the point about second-round effects holds as much today as it did then
01:22:02That’s the risk, and that’s why we..
01:22:04You will know that monetary policy is obviously set to offset those if they emerge, to get back to target
01:22:10We will have to do that, and that's a—I'm afraid, you know—the thin code for saying the more they emerge, the higher rates will have to be
01:22:17But what sort of pay rises could be alarming for the Bank of England is anything above two percent inflation
01:22:22Well, I don't think that's the right way to look at it because, obviously, there's always a productivity angle to it in terms of how pay is set, and it's very important that, you know, I made a general comment about second-round effects, but of course, pay is set in a market, and that's important, and it must continue to be set in a market
01:22:37So it's wrong to say across the economy this is the..
01:22:42The right number because it isn't, uh, different cases and different situations, but I would just emphasize this point about second-round effects, which is the crucial point for monetary policy
01:22:52Mr
01:23:01Carson, has there been an over-reliance on monetary policy in the last 10 years? Well, I mean, I think even going a little bit further back to 2007-2008, monetary policy needed to respond
01:23:10Put it in a different way, there has been a lack of resilience in growth, and yes, to some extent, policies that traditionally are meant to support some fluctuations in the business cycle have probably been used a little bit more, probably in a more lasting way
01:23:35And my sense is that the role of fiscal and monetary policy is to stabilize
01:23:43The business cycle into the future is hitting limits
01:23:48Fiscal policy is obvious because there are issues of debt sustainability, or there can be issues of sustainability
01:23:58And well, now, if we had a long period where monetary policy could have an impact on growth—because, as Christine, as Jay Powell, and Andrew have said—we faced a very, I would say, specific period of very low inflation, where monetary policy could make a difference if you had the instruments
01:24:24Why not use them? No, but I think what we should learn—and this is not only, I mean, at the end of the day, the economies do not depend only on monetary policy; they depend also on fiscal policy and many other real policies
01:24:38That are out there, and what we have seen is, in the last 10, 20 years, it's a very unreliable process of economic growth in the world
01:24:51Some of course have been distorted by issues like wars or pandemics, but even before, I mean, we don't have the resiliency in growth that we would like to see
01:25:03And that puts, at different points in time, a lot of stress on fiscal and monetary policy, and at some point, that has some impact
01:25:10So I think yes, monetary policy will have to adjust, and we have to evolve
01:25:16We are learning; we are learning lessons
01:25:18But I think where we need to work more is to understand growth and how we can promote it in a more reliable fashion
01:25:26Who does he not agree with on the panel? Does everybody? It depends what
01:25:31Kind of growth, and I really think that the, you know, the determination of the Europeans to focus and encourage investment in green growth is critically important if we want to develop the economic potential of any economy
01:25:50You have to go in that direction; that's part of reliability, yeah, yeah, yeah, and resilience, yeah
01:25:58If you don't, Governor Bailey, and then Sherpa..
01:26:00well, I was going to observe—I mean, the point I was coming to, following what Jay and Christine were saying earlier, is about what we've learned from the last 10 years
01:26:06And then, I want to make a point on growth
01:26:08One thing we learned over that period is that the sort of the underlying interest rate, the structural rate, seems to have gone down for a long..
01:26:18Period of time, actually, certainly in the UK, when we look at it, the question is what do we learn? You know, these structural issues that we're facing today, what do they imply for it? I'm probably not in the same place as Charles Goodhart because I think these trends are so long-term, particularly on the population side, on the longevity side, that they have quite a long way to play out even based on what we know today
01:26:42So I think the underlying story will, you know, we will obviously move, but there's a lot that's already built into it
01:26:49Just on the shorter points, I'm great, I mean, I think one of the puzzles, which we're certainly looking at on that, though, is if you take that sort of underlying story of the..
01:26:59Over the last decade, certainly the UK economy is why hasn't investment been greater, because there's a gap opened up between the sort of the risk-free rate and the return, and in the risk-taking environment, and yet investment has been very subdued
01:27:15Now I think the other question we have to answer, but are we capturing investment there? I mean, something we're looking at certainly is whether there is just more investment of a non-traditional sort, which probably is not the case but in part helps to explain that
01:27:33But I think, you know, we see that as an important issue to understand in terms of what we want to know going forwards, because yeah, there's no question that investment is..
01:27:40that Christine was..
01:27:47Saying in terms of climate change, you know it is a big part of the picture going forward and how we solve some of these issues that we've been living with, in terms of low investment and low productivity, in our case as well
01:27:51Sure
01:27:55Do you think we've been over-reliant on monetary policy, especially as a Fed? Yes, I do
01:27:59I would just say I think that, in economic discussion generally, there's too much focus on demand management and not enough on things that will make us grow at the maximum sustainable level
01:28:15Sustainable growth in the longer run
01:28:18There's not enough focus on that, and that isn't the Fed's job
01:28:21That's more the job of, again, elected governments
01:28:23But I'd like to see more of that
01:28:25So how should governments be thinking? About their economic policy going forward, if you know, if monetary policy is not the only game in town, yeah, so I'm kind of out of the business of giving advice to the fiscal authorities these days
01:28:41So I would just say, I think, when I get asked that by an elected representative, what I say is focus on investing in people and investing in things that will increase the productive capacity of the economy over time
01:28:49That's what I say
01:28:57And in terms of what a central bank should do, is stick to its knitting and do its job, and leave the major issues of the day to the elected representatives
01:29:05President Lagarde, we have to stick to anything that's for sure, but if we are asked for advice, we should give it, and I think that you… Knowing to the extent that fiscal and monetary policies have worked hand-in-hand during the pandemic and with good effect, I think we should also reflect on how fiscal policy can leverage what we do and how we can facilitate it
01:29:27But we're not—this is no longer the same cooperation and hand-in-hand work that we used to do during the pandemic
01:29:36Then I would give the same advice: invest in people, invest in green initiatives, be targeted and focused
01:29:41In the medium term, you know, the physical space has to be made sustainable for all countries, certainly in the euro area
01:29:50Mr
01:29:59Carson, what's the correct way of fiscal policy to help monitor? Well, I would definitely add my voice to investing in people, but I..
01:30:08I would say more, more in different aspects that enhance human capabilities
01:30:13Very specifically, well, education is one
01:30:16I think what we have learned with the pandemic is that health systems are extremely important, and I think, to a large extent, we have underinvested there
01:30:25The other thing is digitalization; it will imply technological advances
01:30:37We will really impose very, very dramatic pressures in many countries, and I think how to adapt ourselves to that is very important
01:30:55Climate change, as Christine said, is in many parts of the world
01:31:02Incorporating women into the labor force is very important, and investing more in them is also of the essence in many parts of..
01:31:12The rule of law and order in the world is very important, and so, I mean, there are good and bad aspects
01:31:22There is a lot to be done, but there is a wide variety of areas where we can act, and I think it can make a difference relatively soon
01:31:30Governor B, well, I’d start— I mean, Jay is right: independence goes both ways in our world, and we must respect that, and we do
01:31:38I think there’s a common interest, very much what I was saying a few minutes ago, in understanding why the trend rate of growth has fallen, because it has in our case, it has fallen
01:31:47Now, I don’t, then, for a central bank, I’m not going to start prescribing what should be done about it because I think, in most cases, that will be outside our remit
01:31:56But, obviously, we have a strong..
01:31:57Interest in the trend rate of growth, so understanding the trend rate of growth is, uh, you know, an important thing, and it's something where we can, yeah, we can collaborate in that sense
01:32:06I think perfectly
01:32:08It's happily 27, so we only have three minutes, and I mean, I'd like to ask you just to, um, close off your speech to the American people, to try and help them understand how long it will take for, you know, monetary policy to go back to something that resembles normalcy
01:32:26What would you tell them? I would say that we fully understand and appreciate how the pain people are going through dealing with higher inflation, that we have the tools to address that, and the results to use them, and that we are
01:32:39Committed to and will succeed in getting inflation down to two percent
01:32:41The process is likely highly likely to involve some pain, but the worst pain would be from failing to address this high inflation and allowing it to become persistent
01:32:52President Lagarde [Laughter], Governor Bailey—oh, absolutely
01:32:57I would just add one more thing, which is to emphasize, as Jay and Christine have pointed out, that understanding the pain
01:33:08This form of inflation is even more painful for those on low incomes because it is concentrated in the essentials, in energy and food
01:33:16When you look at the consumption baskets of different income groups in the population, sadly, it is the lowest-income households that are most affected
01:33:30Concentrated in those things, and that is, you know, that is very difficult and something that obviously is very sad
01:33:35But we have to do everything we can because, as Jay said, if we don't get it back to target, the consequences are worse
01:33:42Right, it's 3:30 p.m., so thank you so much for joining us, and thank you so much for a great panel
01:33:46You asked the gentleman to follow me, and then you say on stage, thank you, Francine, for doing such an excellent job moderating that session, and thanks to all of our panelists
01:34:13We've seen a turning point, and now we've heard about how the central bank has arrived where high inflation becomes entrenched
01:34:23All right, so I hope that you guys enjoyed that live stream
01:34:28Again, I would love to host more of these live sessions
01:34:30All I literally ask you guys to do is, if it's not too much to ask, drop a thumbs up, and of course consider subscribing, as I upload new videos every single day about the market
01:34:41If you guys have any specific questions you'd like to ask me or if you just want to stay connected, all the links are in the description of this video
01:34:49You can feel free to send me a message via our little trading group chat; we have a little over 40,000 members
01:34:55Yes, it is for free, and it's the first link in the description down below
01:34:59I really do appreciate your guys' time
01:35:02Thank you guys again for taking at least 30 minutes to an hour of your morning to join us and to see how the market reacted to that ECB conference
01:35:10See you guys on the next one
01:35:14Feel free to message me on Instagram and Discord, and again, all of that info is down below
01:35:20The last thing I do want to remind you is that there are only two more days left for the Shop Tech Buds iPad Air giveaway
01:35:29We're giving away an iPad Air
01:35:32I know this isn't for everyone, but right now we're doing triple entries
01:35:36So, for every one dollar you spend on the site, you automatically get 15 entries
01:35:39If you've ever wanted an Aluminum Ore, a trading mouse pad, or even a flag, our last giveaway winner literally bought a mouse pad and won a brand new iPhone 13
01:35:50So, again, it ends in just two days, and this is not a crazy giveaway
01:35:55That ends in about one month or two months; it literally ends in two days
01:35:59A random person will be selected, and again, it only takes one lucky entry to be this month's giveaway winner
01:36:03For every one dollar you spend, it equals 15 automatic entries
01:36:07This is at shoptechbuds.com, or you can click the fourth link in the description of this video
01:36:13I appreciate you guys' time, like always
01:36:15Let's make sure that we end the year on our green
01:36:18Now, take it easy, team.