00:00The basic fundamentals of cloud, and also the other trend that I'm seeing is that any forum or any narrative around cybersecurity has got two aspects

00:07One is that how will AI impact cybersecurity processes, and how will AI impact the future of the workforce of cyber in cybersecurity

00:23So now the elephant in the room is AI, artificial intelligence, AI, the global AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI

00:33There are certain organizations who would put in a lot of investment to figure out how AI can save cost for them, or how AI can replace workforce cost, which is a major cost for organizations too

00:51[Music] Upskill yourself

00:56So

01:01Here's your host for the day, Deepti Kalra, the CEO and co-founder at Infosec Train

01:06And we are welcoming our very old and dynamic partner from CompTIA, Mr

01:11Pradipto, who is working with CompTIA from the past 13 years or more and has been a great support in the cybersecurity world

01:18So welcome to you, Pradipto

01:24Hope you are doing good for the day and you are equally excited because we are very thrilled to have this session with you

01:30Thank you so much, Deepti, and as you mentioned, you know, it's been a long partnership and a long alliance with Infosec Train

01:36It's absolutely my pleasure to be here today

01:42Talk about the most pertinent topics that are, uh, interesting for, uh, your audiences and for the industry on the whole

01:47Absolutely, and we feel that the talk of the town today is AI

01:52So we'll be having a lot of discussions around AI and the SOC, because, uh, recently I had an incident from where, you know, one of my participant, one of our training attendee, only discussed a situation, uh, wherein he is already a SOC analyst and doing very well in the organization where he's working, but the challenge he's facing is that the AI tools that his company has introduced have started taking, uh, the solutions so easy

02:22On his work routine that he's now concerned how the SOC, uh, will be adapting to AI

02:28So we'll be, uh, using this discussion, this, uh, challenge which we have faced from the real time world, and we'll be discussing around that

02:34I hope you'll be excited as well to discuss the same

02:38Absolutely

02:42In fact, I'll just add a note to this, is that, uh, there is a, there are, there are two feedbacks that I'm getting from the industry

02:46One is that of, uh, that of excitement that happens with all change or all disruptions that come in, and the second one is, like you said, fearfulness or the, uh, or the, or apprehension, and to be honest, you know

03:00Uh, when I talk to a student, or to a business leader, or a CXO, everywhere they're talking about, uh, these two emotions

03:06Uh, and also the other trend that I'm seeing is that any forum or any narrative around cybersecurity has four, two aspects

03:13One is that how will AI impact cybersecurity processes, and how will AI impact the future of the workforce of cyber in cybersecurity

03:25True, so I'm looking forward, that's great

03:31So, uh, Praep, our audience have shared few questions which I really wanted to bring up here, and, uh, we are looking forward to the industry experience that you are carrying, uh, from the real world and how these

03:39Challenges will be addressed in the real future, near future

03:46So my first question to you is, as a key player in tech workforce development, how has CompTIA's approach to the certifications and skill validation evolved in the last two years, and how are you keeping your pace updated with the AI and the new technologies? Great

03:54Thanks, thanks, Deep

04:03In fact, as you know, you've been working with CompTIA for a very long time as a partner

04:11We bring a legacy of more than three and a half decades of building industry relevant certification, and the first thing that we do is listen

04:25We go back to the

04:38industry, we ask questions about what is going to happen in the future, uh, 2 years down the line, 3 years down the line, 5 years down the line, and that's how we create something that we call as a job task analysis, and, uh, the whole objective of doing that is basically to analyze the job tasks, not the roles per se, but the task and the function that a person does, and then that becomes a fundamental of our research, which then leads to, uh, the, uh, the development of the certifications and the content

04:52Okay, so two things very important: one is that we invest a lot of, uh, resources on researching what is happening in the

04:57industry today and what will happen tomorrow

05:03And the second is the industry connect that we have with, with our legacy of being one of the largest vendor neutral certification organization for the last 40 years

05:07That's true

05:11And your question about validation, I'll give you a couple of examples, you know

05:14So, while the cyber security industry has been really overburdened with the whole talk about offensive security, you know, and whenever you ask someone, they'll always talk about offensive piece of it, uh, but while talking to, uh, uh, to enterprise organizations through this process of Development of certification, we figured out that there is a far more need of, uh, of defensive security professionals

05:37So when we work on the updations, for example, of our flagship product, Security Plus, uh, we, we have put in a lot of content around security architecture and operations, which are the core functions of a defensive security setup

05:53Uh, so that is one way that we do it, and the second example that we have is AI, because we are talking about that, and what we do is, first and foremost, whenever there is a new technology that creeps in, uh, the first thing is to define the fundamentals, and so we've launched Content around AI essentials, so that, okay, cut the uh noise, right? Get down, what is prompting, what is, how can you create effective prompts, great compliances, and then that is one piece

06:23And then we go on to build another certification, uh, which is called SEC AI Plus, which would be focusing on two aspects, uh, one is security for AI, and the other is called AI for security

06:30So how do you, uh, use AI to secure your network, and how does security, how do you secure, uh, AI systems, so that is something that is in the offing, and you'll very soon hear about it

06:38Awesome

06:46So I would like to, uh, take a little more detail about these

06:53Two products that you have just shared, and uh, how is it helping in the real-time skill building, so that our audience can also, you know, start investigating into the outlines and they can know more

07:01So how would you like to give a small brief about both the programs? Great

07:07So like I said, you know, uh, historically, uh, when CompTIA develops or sees any new technology, and cut back to 10 years back when cloud came into our narratives, uh, you know, the first thing that we built was something called Cloud Essentials, which the people from entire organization can take it, you know, I mean, uh, just to define what is the basic

07:26Fundamentals of cloud, right? Similarly, within AI, we are saying that, okay, well, we talk a lot about AI, you know, and honestly speaking, we really, even now, we cannot predict that how much AI will affect a particular business process

07:45So the first thing that you need to do is that what is AI, and what are the fundamentals of AI, you know, what is predictive, what is generative, and so on and so forth

07:52So the whole idea was to build a program that, right from somebody who is in the sales, or somebody who is in the HR, or the top leadership, the CXO, at least bring down on the table, hey, this is AI

08:05So that's where the Fundamentals of AI comes into picture

08:19The second uh product, which is Sik AI plus that we are formulating right now, comes out from the research that says that out of the multiple processes within technology industry, AI has become very relevant for the SOC, the security operations center, or the defensive security, the whole monitoring area

08:32So we needed a program that would again bring down people to explain them that how uh are these uh, how is AI influencing uh security, and like I said in my previous answer, is that how can you, for example, you have to live with AI systems, you have to live with the models

08:53And how do you secure them? And point number two is that, uh, how do you use AI tools or processes to secure your traditional network or a cloud network? So that was the objective, and that is where, because one of the things that clearly comes out, that you have to live with it

09:10The SOC analysts or the security analyst will have to live with, uh, with AI, you know, because that, you know, there are, uh, there are some functions that definitely is, you know, like you said in your opening note, that, you know, uh, it is, it is definitely, you know, coming into their day-to-day work

09:21So therefore, you need to go back to the drawing board

09:31And figure out what is, so the whole program of SEC AI Plus starts with, again, going back to the fundamentals, building up on these two aspects that I spoke about

09:35Great

09:39So that means you already have a solution for the problem that our customers have reported, hopefully

09:42Yes, absolutely

09:46So I would also like to bring it back to SOC

09:49Only when you look at the security operations today versus a few years ago, where do you place the shift that you have seen all these years? That's great

09:56I mean, huge

10:03I think among all the processes within a security operations, I think SOC has seen the maximum

10:07amount of evolution, and it's been innocuous

10:12If you look at the origin of SOC, it was nothing but network operating centers

10:16I mean, uh, and what you were doing, or what a person who is, uh, sitting in a NOC is doing, is basically network monitoring

10:24You are still doing network monitoring, so basically your job role, per se, does not change, but the evolution has happened from a physical network to a cloud network, and now, uh, the AI, uh, piece coming into picture

10:42So, one of the major shifts that has happened in, uh, SOC is, is the shift from reactive to proactive

10:48So, it's, it's all about being one step ahead than the, uh, than the

10:52Uh, than the bad actor, you know

10:55So, that's point number one, reactive to proactive

10:59Second big shift is from signature-based detection to heuristic detection

11:02So, there's a lot of behavioral analytics, uh, that has come into picture

11:16You know, uh, the other thing that has come into picture is also there's a concept of technical debt

11:30Uh, what was happening is that because of market demands, when you're developing an application or a software, there is an urge to launch out in the market, and then when you're doing it, uh, what happens is that every time you are skipping a security control in that, so you're Coming up with an application which is unsecured, or coming up with an upgrade to a software which is unsecured, and every time you do that, you incur a technical debt, and when you take a debt, you return back with interest, and that interest is basically your security breach

11:44So now, from DevOps, it has become DevSecOps

11:53True

12:01So, with these shifts, what is happening is that, uh, what we are seeing is that SOC now is much, much more integrated with all functions of the business, right from the C-level to the customer, to your own manager, and also, like you said in your opening note, interacting with the agents

12:09Because obviously the, the fundamental, uh, you know, uh, the triaging of, uh, of threats is, is now being, uh, you know, done by agents

12:22So basically, now what is happening is that you can focus, you have more time to focus on more complex threats

12:28So those are the changes that has happened

12:34The job role of being a detective remains, it's just that the functions and the tools that you want to use have changed, they have improvised

12:40Yeah, absolutely

12:46That's great

12:52That's a great explanation, rather

12:58So now the elephant in the room is AI, and, uh, what are you telling people when they ask that whether AI is going to Replace SOC? This is in association to what we discussed earlier as well, but uh, do you really feel that AI is going to replace the SOC analyst, or is it the extended arm to support them and, you know, bring in um, much better performance? Yeah

13:06So interesting

13:14This is a question that is thrown at me in every interaction with students, uh, that I do, which very frequently or career seekers, and the same question that, you know, will AI replace me, replace a human? Uh, honestly speaking, uh, in the long run, no, and I'll explain you why

13:22Uh, in the short run, there are some organiz, you know, about the hype cycle, right? Whenever there is a new technology that comes in, there is always a hype cycle, so there are certain organizations who would put in a lot of investment to figure out, uh, how AI can save cost for them, or how AI can replace workforce cost, which is a major cost for organizations, you know

13:45Uh, so they will invest in it, they will try it out, but if you look at, if we look at as an, as an industry, if we look at AI as an enabler, not an adversary, right, that is where the whole, and that is, I think, serious organization, this is what they're doing

13:54There's a very tightly controlled set of functions on which they are exploring AI

14:03So if you

14:12Bring that, translate that to SOC things like false positives, you know, I mean, a lot of time for the traditional SOC worker went in, you know, identifying false positives where the actual threat used to slip behind the radar

14:21So, so what organizations are doing is that the basic first level of, you know, triaging or first level of prioritizing of the threat is done by AI

14:34So two effects that are happening: one is that the, uh, the average SOC worker is not burning out

14:45Number two, I mean, it's not like, uh, you know, you're not, you're not basically doing it day in and day out

14:50So what is happening is That then you are focusing a lot on creativity, and you're focusing on identifying the nuances of the threads that are coming in, so effectivity is increasing

14:56AI is just a tool, so to answer your question in the summary, in the long run, you know, it's not going to go away

15:09Uh, sorry, in the long run, AI will, uh, only increase the effectivity and the efficiency and the productivity of a SOC worker

15:15Take the example of, um, uh, of a, of a surgeon, for example

15:21The core function of the surgeon is to, you know, do a surgery

15:28Uh, it's just that nowadays you have robotic surgery, but at the end of the day, the controls will still have To be done by the medical, the surgeon, surgeon, or the medical practitioner, right? So it's the same as here, your tools will change

15:34So to answer your question, in the long run, definitely, uh, it will add to productivity

15:40If it adds to productivity, it will add to, you know, more, more number of people also joining the industry as SOC analysts

15:49That's true

15:58And then I think it also generates, uh, a lot of employment for those who are, um, exploring the opportunities in developing those AI tools, and, uh, I also agree with the fact that we have to consider AI as the extended arm for the organizations rather than the

16:07replacement

16:16So that's a great answer

16:26Now moving to the next question, and what are the biggest demand signals from employers for cyber and AI roles that you're getting when you're meeting your enterprise customers or even reaching out to your academy partners? Uh, what type of uh skills are they developing there and uh uh what are uh most important certifications that demonstrate the projects and the skills? Well, great, I mean this is again a very pertinent question

16:35Uh, so recently I was moderating a round table with some of the top minds in cyber security, CXOs in leading organizations, and uh I

16:41Brought it down in terms of the paradox where, uh, on one hand, we talk about, uh, there's a huge number of army of people required in cybersecurity, and on the other hand, uh, students who are really passionate about joining, or even working professionals who are passionate about, you know, moving into cybersecurity, often times what happens is that they don't find, you know, mapping of their skills, what they have learned in cybersecurity, to really getting an employment

17:13So we opened up that discussion, and there are certain things that came out, uh, uh, and they were very, very, uh, prominent

17:19First and Foremost is fundamentals

17:26You won't believe that we are talking about AI, and we are talking about, uh, you know, so many high-tech concepts, but then the CXO said that I want a person who knows, uh, you know, subnet mask

17:32I, I need a person who, who knows the network protocols like the back of his palm

17:41So that is one thing, the fundamental

17:49The second thing that, uh, they mentioned was that there has been a lack of entry-level people who really has a hands-on, uh, experience, performance based, that if I put them through in a, in front of a system, whether they're able to perform or not

17:58So those are the two skills that really came

18:07Okay

18:16When you come to the other part in terms of the tangible, what would they look for in your resume or CV? The certifications, the certifications obviously, and see, honestly speaking, you know, I, you know, we are a certification organization, but I always maintain that you should not take the word certification as a silo, absolutely

18:25There is a whole, you know, there's a whole ecosystem behind it, which starts from a good trainer, yes, and a good training and a good mentorship content, and then comes to certific, you know, promoted the concept of get certified and get employed so much that there is an urge in

18:45People to really get certified, I mean I have seen students, uh, in colleges who said that, okay, I have done, uh, you know, uh, I have done Security+, but I want to do OCP, and my, always my, my, my, uh, point to them is that, look, uh, that is an overkill for you

19:03So what, what is happening is, with this whole urge of getting certified and assuming that this certification will be a passport to your employment or a promotion or something, I think that needs to be challenged a little bit

19:20Yes, enterprise organization, when they are evaluating even a Security+ candidate, should also understand that if you are certified

19:27Are you really skilled? So there's a difference between being certified and being skilled

19:33So yes, I mean from an entry-level standpoint, CompTIA's programs, you know, Security Plus, CySA Plus, and then there are many other programs that are available which are pretty good as a benchmark skill, uh, but then, uh, my recommendation is to the enterprise and also to the job seeker is that, uh, you know, justify the fact that you have earned a certification by doing hands-on and by proving that I have the skills that the learning outcome of the certification prescribes

20:05So do you agree with me that the training industry Is now shifting from a standard, uh, by-book, bylaw knowledge to more of skill-based training, or do you feel that that gap is still there, and, uh, the training institutions have to work on a lot more developing the hands-on part and the skill grooming that you have just mentioned? It is, the gap is still there, Deepti, you know, I mean, uh, again, like I said, you know, it is basically, uh, the whole concept that, okay, I, I need to get certified, you know, and it's not, I mean, I would like to say that I would like to hear somebody saying that I need to get trained and then get certified, uh, viz that somebody comes to Infosec Train and say

20:27That, oh, I need to be certified in Security+, or A+, or whatever it is, you know

20:50Uh, but then as a counselor, I would say that, okay, you want to get certified, but then there is a very, very arduous process to go through it, and that message has to go in, which, in many cases, I, I don't see even in academics, academic institution

21:13It is obviously the students who, uh, you know, with their, um, availability of resources, they would like to do certification, but that whole hands-on and blending of that knowledge that you provide theoretical is important, and you cannot do away with the theoretical knowledge, but then add on

21:31A healthy dose of hands-on, use case-based training, which is basically showcasing how you actually do it, because the other thing that you need to understand and tell the candidates, and the job seeker, is that look, gone are the days where the organizations will hire you and put you through a 3-month, 6-month kind of a training program

21:50They will want you to be productive and earn money for the organization from day one

21:56So you need to sit on that console

22:01If you are a SOC, you need to know day one and need to identify threats on the day one of your performance

22:06Absolutely, and that's Where we actually are trying to fill the gap, and I would like to take this moment and acknowledge the fact that we do a lot of hands-on and skill-based training as a part of the certification-based curriculum

22:18We have extended arms wherein we put in a lot of extra effort to prepare the case studies in the real-world scenarios, so I also agree with the fact that the skill-based grooming is as important as the certifications are, and to make any employee active at work from day one, skill-based trainings are absolutely much, much more required, and that's the reason you are one of our premier

22:43partners

22:58Thank you

23:14So, moving to the next question, for professionals feeling anxious about AI, what is the practical upskilling road map that you can follow in the next 6 months? Um, so first and foremost, I'll again go back to, I love to go back to basics, you know, and uh, I always say that, uh, train to tame, you know, I mean, uh, the, the, the only way you can do away with anxiety is to face it, right? So, first and foremost, you need to face that there are certain aspects of your, uh, day-to-day functions will be taken over by AI, because you know that is going to happen, so you need to have that understanding of AI

23:29And the other Thing is that AI is very interesting because it is as effective as the question that you ask, right? So, one of the key skills that you need to build immediately, uh, is an effective prompting skill

23:41So, one part is the fundamentals of AI

23:47Second part is the, uh, is the application and the use case of AI

23:52Third area is, uh, is effective prompting and prompt engineering, not from a hardcore technical standpoint, but even from a concept of how do you ask question, true? And then finally, the other part is from an AI standpoint, is the, uh, is the compliance and the governance part of it

23:58So that is part one of your

24:03Knowledge

24:09Now, AI, as you said, is a tool that can be used in multiple domains

24:15So, uh, because we are talking, it's CyberTalk, so I focus my discussion only around cyber

24:20So, within cyber, again, there are few things that you need to build up

24:24Uh, one is, uh, understand the AI models that are being developed around, uh, around cybersecurity

24:29Some of them are the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, MIT, repository of, uh, models, and then you've got the LLM top 10, and then you've got the MITRE, uh, atlas framework

24:40Uh, so have a handle on those frameworks

24:46So that's point number one

24:52Uh, and then, of course, uh, there is a bit of scripting that is required, and now again, thanks to AI, you have no code, low code kind of uh environments where you can really try your hands on a bit of scripting

24:58Um, and then, uh, obviously, uh, get to know the two aspects that I have always been talking about, which is basically, uh, you know, security for AI and AI for security

25:13Once you have that fundamental, I am sure that you will be less, uh, fearful about the, you use the word, "elephant in the room," uh, fearful about that, rather you will try to embrace that and figure out how it can help in my day-to-day job

25:21Mhm

25:29All right, Praepto, so it have been really Interactive and detailed session so far

25:37Uh, I would also like you to put some, uh, light on how the corporate world and the governments who are playing the major role

25:43What's your perspective on the Indian government's, uh, India AI mission, and how public-private collaboration can accelerate the workforce development here? I think, uh, you know, the AI mission of the government is very ambitious

25:54Uh, I think already last year, I think, uh, there was a commitment of 10,000 crores

26:05Okay

26:16Two things that really, you know, where I got interested was, uh, one is, uh, there is, you know, out of the key outcomes that the Government is expecting out of this investment, two of the things, of course, there are things like building up your indigenous models, research, all of that is part of it, but two things that, uh, really, you know, kind of stands out

26:27One is, uh, the seed capital for startups

26:34I think that that is very interesting, because obviously there will be a lot of innovation around this area, and therefore that will open up scope for, uh, start a startup mechanism to work in this area, you know, and that too from an enterprise standpoint, if you have an enterprise solution, and that is something that we are hungry for

26:50I mean, we have A lot of startups in the consumer segment, but uh, using AI, can we develop something meaningful for the industry, for the enterprise organization? Uh, that is one, and second is hunt for talent

26:57So those are the two areas

27:04If we are able to collaborate as a, so it's always a, it's always a trifecta

27:13You have industry, you have government, and you've got academics

27:23If we are able to collaborate between these three uh vertices of the triangle, I think we can utilize that to really build up uh, rather than, you know, again going back to your point of uh, the AI being a fearful elephant in the, in the room, if you're able to

27:32Embrace that these, you know, initiatives the government will really help

27:38Point number two is, uh, there's a great job also being done by NASCOM through its future skills platform, and it is interesting to see that they have created a separate vertical on emerging technology where there is both AI as well as cyber security, and, uh, they're looking at, uh, partners, uh, you know, uh, to, to, to launch their courses on the platform, and more interestingly, there is a very good buy in from the, uh, ministry of, uh, uh, electronics, telecom, and IT in terms of, uh, blessing that and also from, uh, uh, regulatory bodies like AICTE

28:15All India Council of Technical Education, who has gone on record and said that if people do the NSQF mapped courses, uh, it will fall under the, uh, the credit program of, uh, of the national education policy

28:27So those are the initiative

28:39It takes a little bit time, grounds up, to really move, because, see, historically, if you see that the Indian IT industry has been pretty much driven, and specifically the workforce development has been driven by, uh, by the industry themselves

28:52They have been very, and that's, they have been very forthcoming on it, and that is why all organizations have an academy like Infosys Academy

28:57or TCS Academy, Deote, and so on

29:02So they have been pretty much uh self-sufficient, whereas in many other, even Southeast Asian countries, uh government has paid a big part in uh, you know, in the development of IT workforce, and I think the the future is very bright, and I see personally that there is a lot of synergy between the industry, industry bodies, the government, and the academic institution, and that will really mark the difference in terms of uh creating more workforce, both as employable workforce as well as people who want to do startups

29:26Exactly

29:49So in extension to this, this uh how do you feel? That, uh, what will be the state of freshers, or, you know, the entry-level jobs after 5 years from now? Do you still feel that the fundamentals will play the crucial role, or do you think that our academic sessions must have something advanced at the very initial level, so that, uh, from the very initial years of their education, they start getting into, uh, the job-ready kind of a person? So, uh, so what becomes level two becomes level one, and level one becomes AI

30:12Now, there are two parts of fundamental, the fundamental skills

30:18One is the core concept, which is very academic, like, for example, concepts of networking or Concepts of, uh, you know, cloud or concept of Linux, Linux administration, for example, so they will still, I, I would recommend that they would still be an academic kind of a vocation that also has to be hands-on, that's a separate story, but then that is, that is the core, uh, competence, or that is there

30:43The second part of the fundamentals is fundamentals of SOC

30:50Now that fundamentals of SOC will become AI driven

30:56So therefore, the, uh, the complex resolutions, the complex, uh, threat hunting, or the threat intelligence piece of it, will, will be something that will be required from the freshers

31:02So things like Understanding of, um, uh, business processes, you know, understanding of, uh, the networks, the, the, uh, you know, understanding of the network architecture, for example, we talk a lot about zero trust network with the perimeter going away

31:14It's all about, finally, we are seeing the implementation of zero trust networks and the whole concept of encryption and authentication coming in

31:27So those are the skills that need to be done, and what we are doing as CompTIA is that, that's the reason we are bringing the elements of these, which were earlier a level two concept, we are including it in our, for example, Security+

31:40Certification is preparing people for thinking, um, more from a zero trust network architecture, for example, right? So that is shift, that is the requirement

31:54Uh, what I foresee in the next three to five years, or even earlier, I, I would say next 15 to 20 months, I would say that that would be the requirement from the industry, from fresh graduates

32:05So then, are you looking for any reforms that are coming into our, uh, pre-graduation era as well? Are you looking for any changes in the education system? Because with the very fundamental change in NEP, uh, that has been introduced at the school level, are you also Expecting any changes in the bachelor's part, wherein cyber will be given due diligence, and you know, it will be inculcated, or are the universities already making it as a premium niche, which is required by their students? It's already happening, Deep, you know, if you look at, you know, any university, be the IITs, or be it private universities of repute, uh, big, small, medium size, they are all launching specialization in cyber security, so it's market driven

32:57I understand that, so there were specialized programs in ML, for example, that was done, there were specialized program in data sciences that was

33:03done specialized programs in, um, in, uh, in cyber security that was launched, and to be honest, after 2 years, what I'm seeing more and more is that the maximum number of interest is being shown in cyber security part of the whole narrative, that you know, is that cyber security is getting more and more entrenched with our society and our narrative, uh, on a day-to-day basis, so automatically students now in our Indian education system, um, it's a little unfortunate that an 18-year-old has to decide the vocation right on, you know, on, on when they are joining the graduation and undergrad, unlike in the west where you have four years' time to basically think about, uh, but even then, uh, one, two things

33:50One is that one thing that students have also understood is that, uh, you need to do some kind of specialization, so the, so the universities are launching it, so that's one part of it, and we are working very closely so that skill preparation is starting Saturday, already it has started, and the other thing is that cybersecurity is one domain where, you know, uh, you can come later on as well

34:15So even if you are, for example, a civil engineer or a chemical engineer or even a non-tech grad with the right training and with the right Certifications you can get into the world of cybersecurity, that's the best part about it

34:21Yeah

34:27So, uh, nothing, uh, so the change is already happening, it's very organic

34:31Okay

34:35And you think that this will only increase with time? Absolutely, absolutely, that's great, without a doubt

34:38So one, uh, piece of advice from you that you will give to the leaders, uh, in the enterprise business, uh, about how they should plan their cyber trainings and cyber reinforcement in the organization, or, uh, the talent development around cyber

34:58So cyber is a very huge term, but, uh, to the leaders, uh, how would you like them to plan? And start from the very scratch? So it, and that again ties down to my experience of, uh, speaking to, uh, multiple, uh, CXOs over forums as well as informally

35:17Uh, what I figured out, what my recommendation, that one thing that you asked, is that be open to hiring interns

35:22I mean, that's one thing, you know, and that was a solution that a lot of, you know, a lot of these CXOs do agree to, that what happens is a win-win, because an intern is not a zero, uh, they can be productive and they can add value to your processes and to your business

35:42That's point number one, uh, without any strings attached, um, you know, and for the, for the, uh, intern, it's a great platform to really do that hands-on piece that we are talking about

35:55So we've seen that across the globe, apprenticeship and internship is very, very common

36:00It's coming to Indian universities also right now because culturally, see, uh, the Indian family says that complete your education and then join anything, don't mix work with education

36:10I think that paradigm needs to change

36:21In the West, it's been going on for a long time, and now if you see the modern age universities in India, many of them are saying that you don't need to come to campus for the last year if you are doing an Internship, we will give you credit and marks on the basis of your performance on, uh, on the internship program that you've joined

36:32So apprenticeship and internship and, um, uh, which are very important, and that is where your, uh, the PM internship program is a great, uh, platform where, uh, what, what the government says is that, you know, there are, uh, you need to have, I think, 1 CR interns across 500 to 600 organizations, top organizations, so over the next five years, obviously, but then that is a great, so those are the things, yes, that's the next, uh, step, and I think it will come because, uh, you know, it is already happening

37:06Across the world, in many economies, and I think as mentors, as parents, I think we should be open with the idea that there is something called OJT, which is on-the-job training, and you will be okay to, you know, get the student or the child to practice as they study and complete their degree

37:17That's true indeed

37:28And how should learning paths change to prepare professionals for AI-driven security threats, the best practices I'm talking, yeah

37:39So I think again, going back to the earlier point where, you know, the learning path in cybersecurity has to inculcate a certain amount of Fundamentals of AI, uh, and that that will happen only when, uh, we as certification and content organization come together with partners like yourself and and launch programs where you are, uh, you know, kind of offering a solution to the learner where there is an intersection of cybersecurity and AI, and and we touched upon that in one of your earlier questions as well

38:13So that is my, uh, recommendation

38:18Learning parts are again because you're the technology goldpost is always changing and learning has to always, you know, be very dynamic

38:21Yeah

38:25It cannot be a to-do

38:28It cannot be a one-time learning event

38:31I mean, uh, uh, you know, in many organizations, they also term learning as an event

38:36I want to do this event, learning event, or a training event

38:42I think we should come out of that and say that it's a lifelong learning, you know, and that path has to map with the job role, and you create that career development path for an employee

38:52Uh, what will also come out of it is that your attrition rates will come down because you are offering something to the learner

38:58You know, there was a sentiment earlier is that why should I spend money on my employee because if I train them, spend money, they will go and join the competitor

39:05Honestly, you know, we have used cases where we have seen is that where the organization have invested money on training, the attrition has come down, so that, you know, postul, I don't think is 100% correct

39:18And now, especially now, with job market being a little bit more sluggish than what it was earlier, I think it's a safe time

39:30I always say that if you, uh, you know, if you bleed in terms of, uh, peace, you will, uh, sorry, if you sweat in terms of peace, you will not, you will bleed less in terms of war

39:42So on the contrary, at this time of sluggishness, in fact, I, my recommendation is that you should spend your cash in terms of upskilling your people rather than cutting the learning and development budget

39:48Exactly

39:54And then rather than diverting everything to the dependency on AI, basically

40:02Absolutely

40:10And in extension to this, the best practices for building effective hands-on labs or replicating the real world scenarios, what what's your thought about it? Does our current enterprise system allow this sort of training, or are they still, uh, into a, you know, a standard fixed, uh, by the training providers? Okay

40:18So, um, deeply, there are two aspects to it

40:24One aspect is that a learning solutions provider like yourself or us Or any other EdTech organization, uh, it has become much more easier to build real-life situations, uh, on simulated labs, or I mean even virtual labs is a, is a par now

40:38Uh, what we're talking about is a very integrated simulated lab platform where you don't have to go to a VM to basically access those, uh, real-life scenarios

40:50You know, at CompTIA, we are, uh, you know, what we do is we focus a lot on the development of the labs, and the newest platform that we are, uh, on which all our content is residing and will reside moving forward is, uh, where we are working on a concept on simulated lab where, uh, you study a concept and

41:09Right below that, you click on that simulated lab

41:14It opens in a window, not a browser, but a window where it mimics the actual environment

41:20So that's one part of it

41:25The second part of it, from an enterprise standpoint, when you have done this, is basically doable because it is already there in the market

41:31The second part, I'll go back to my whole concept of internship, should be a part of the learning journey, because that is where it is trial by fire, where you sit in front and there is a real threat coming in

41:45What you do in a simulated lab is a simulated environment where you say that, okay, this threat is Coming in, but what you do in a production environment is where you face the real challenge

41:51Obviously, there has to be escalation, there has to be a, you know, a matrix

41:58You cannot leave everything to that incumbent to solve, uh, but then that will be a trial by fire

42:04And, and if you, if we are able to do this, then I think your productivity will go up, your attritions will go down, and you will have, uh, more effective in terms of, uh, threat hunting or creating those, uh, threat intel models, and so on and so forth

42:14Okay, awesome

42:25And, uh, the last question, uh, and a very important one, uh, what's the one AI development that has You most excited, the one that's going to be a game changer, and how do we defend organizations with that? So, well, it's, it's already happening

42:35Agentic AI, I think that is one thing that everybody's talking about, everybody's excited about, and it's not only in cyber security, but also, uh, like patch management, etc., you know, where, uh, you know, where you're dependent on human intervention on patch management, and if you, uh, and if you leave them, then you have the zero day attacks and, and the vulnerabilities coming in, right? And if, if there is an agentic AI which is able to replace that, so that's one aspect, the other aspect

43:06Is a personal, uh, sort of feedback, which is basically, uh, using, uh, AI to track health, you know, uh, and, and not only your physical health, but also your mental health, mental health, you know, and, uh, and with the, uh, with so much of uncertainty in the market, I see a lot of restlessness among working professionals and also students, uh, where, like I said, you know, when we started, we talked about two emotions, one is the, uh, one is excitement, which comes naturally with any change, and then there is also a, also a sense of fear, you know, uh, so I think, uh, with, with this, there is a lot of, you, uh, mental health thing

43:53So if, if somebody's Coming out, I think there are already applications and tools that are, uh, basically, uh, figuring out your, because it's very difficult to, uh, really put tangible things to your mental, uh, state of, or state of, uh, mental health

44:12Uh, if somebody can put some large language model around that and create some standards and, uh, resolve that, that will be a great area to work with

44:19Awesome

44:26So, uh, with the, with the perfect note that we are on right now, I would like to thank you for your time, and it had been an incredible, uh, experience getting your knowledge and, uh, understanding the market, uh, standards that are going on and

44:32Principally, how the organizations are treating the academy and the new initiatives taken by the government, as well as how the AI and SOC is going to uplift the market in the near future

44:45So your inputs have been wonderful

44:51Any last closing point for our viewers, wherein you would like to tell them that AI is an extension to their current job role and they should not be scared of it

45:04So first of all, you know, it's been an absolute pleasure to be here at InfosecTrain and talk to you

45:09I'm always inspired by yourself and the other co-founder, PR, from InfosecTrain

45:14It's been a Great journey

45:18So thank you very much for inviting me

45:23Uh, in terms of a closing comment, I think first and foremost, uh, like I said, you know, embrace, uh, the AI piece, you know, you, you cannot do away with it

45:28I mean, there are a lot of technology trends that happen, but I think, uh, if you look at, uh, the larger scale, you know, uh, computers, internet, and then AI, I mean the less the others in between have been blips, uh, so to speak

45:43Uh, but then, uh, it's been, it, it will be here and the second thing is upskill yourself because, uh, there was one question that you asked in the, uh, during the discussion was, uh, you know, related to

45:54What are the kind of, what will happen to somebody, uh, you know, will AI replace the job, and so on

46:02So, I would say that yes, the only situation where it will is where you are not updating your skills

46:08True

46:14Uh, use it as a tool and learn the concept of AI as it applies to your industry, or your domain, or your vocation that you're doing

46:20That, I think, is the key thing for you to be relevant for the next, you know, I don't know how many years, but to be relevant, true, that's true

46:31And on that note, uh, it's a perfect closure what you have given, and we hope that our audience will definitely align to what we have discussed today, and we Look forward to many more sessions with you, and your insights are always helpful

46:44Pradipto, we look forward to your knowledge and, uh, experience in the industry, and, uh, it's our pleasure to have you once again

46:47Thank you so much, Deepi

46:50Best wishes to everybody in InfosecTrain, indeed

46:53Thank you

46:56So, uh, that's the last call for the day, and until next time, keep following CyberTalks at InfosecTrain

47:02You'll have a lot many more such, uh, interviews coming forward, and, uh, we'll keep giving you great insights for the industry that will help you groom yourself in your organization

47:14Thank you once again.