00:20[Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Everyone, and welcome to Tesla's fourth quarter 2022 Q&A webcast
02:15My name is Martin Vautier, VP of Investor Relations, and I’m joined today by Elon Musk, Zachary Kirkhorn, and a number of other executives
04:10Our Q4 results were announced at about 3 pm Central Time
06:04In the update deck we published at the same link as this webcast, during this call, we will discuss our business outlook and..
07:59Make forward-looking statements
08:00These comments are based on our predictions and expectations as of today
08:03Actual events or results could differ materially due to a number of risks and uncertainties, including those mentioned in our most recent filings with the SEC
08:15During the question and answer portion of today's call, please limit yourself to one question and one follow-up
08:19Please use the raised hand button to join the question queue
08:23But before we jump into Q&A, Elon has some opening remarks
08:25Elon, uh, thank you, Martin
08:28So, uh, 2022, just going through a 2022 recap
08:34It was a fantastic year for Tesla
08:37It was our best year ever, on every level
08:39The team did an amazing job
08:42It's an honor, of course, to work with such an incredibly talented team
08:44Talented group of people
08:48So, in 2022, we delivered over 1.3 million cars and achieved a 17% operating margin, the highest among any volume car maker, I think maybe among any car maker
09:03While doing so, we generated 12.5 billion dollars in net income and 7.5 billion in free cash flow
09:11Importantly, the Tesla team achieved these records despite the fact that 2022 was an incredibly challenging year due to four shutdowns, very high interest rates, and many delivery challenges
09:26So, it's worth noting that all these records were achieved in the face of massive difficulties
09:35Credit goes to the team for accomplishing that
09:39The most common question we've been getting from..
09:40Investors are talking about demand, so I want to put that concern to rest
09:47Thus far in January, we've seen the strongest orders year to date ever in our history
09:56We are currently seeing orders at almost twice the rate of production, so I mean, that's hard to say whether that will continue, but the orders are high
10:08We've actually raised the price of the Model Y a little bit in response to that
10:15We do not think demand will decline significantly, despite a probable contraction in the automotive market as a whole
10:31Basically, price really matters
10:34I think there are a vast number of people who want to buy a Tesla but can't afford it, so these price changes are quite significant
10:44Make a difference
10:46For the average consumer, it's sometimes, you know, for those people who are well, you know, have a lot of money, they sort of forget about how important affordability is
10:58And it has always been our goal at Tesla to make cars that are affordable to as many people as possible, so I'm glad that we're able to do so
11:10And, um, yeah, so I think it's a good thing
11:22All things considered, we're also making very good progress on cost control, and we're seeing the costs of production in Berlin and Austin drop commensurate with the growth in production, so as you'd expect
11:31So, um, yeah
11:40Regarding Autopilot, as of now, we’ve deployed Full Self-Driving beta to roughly 400,000 vehicles for testing on city streets
11:50Customers in North America, this is a huge milestone for autonomy, as the FSD beta is the only way any consumer can actually test the latest AI-powered autonomy
12:01We're currently at about 100 million miles of FSD outside highways, and data shows that there has been an improvement in safety statistics
12:15Yeah, safety statistics are very clear
12:25So, we would not have released the FSD beta if these safety statistics were not excellent
12:27With the production rate of 4680 battery cells reaching a thousand cars a week at the end of last year, we're increasing our capacity for 4680 cells by another 100 gigawatt-hours, as announced at Giga Nevada yesterday
12:46The long-term goal is to get to, uh, well in excess of a thousand gigawatt-hours of battery pack sales produced internally, and continue to use other third-party cell suppliers as well
12:57To be clear, we will continue to utilize external cell providers, just as the demand for lithium-ion batteries is quasi-infinite or will be for quite some time
13:08So, we feel we can scale much faster using both suppliers and internally produced cells
13:20We have an amazing plan for making the 4680 cell low cost and high energy density
13:31Energy storage also sees record growth, and that is continuing to accelerate
13:41It's always worth remembering that the three pillars of a sustainable energy future are, of course, electric vehicles, solar, and..
13:54Wind, and then the third key item is stationary storage to store the energy from solar and wind, because obviously the sun doesn't shine all the time, and the wind doesn't blow all the time
14:04So, if you have those three things, you can, you can convert all of Earth to a fully sustainable situation many times over, actually
14:18So, I would like to just, you know, make it clear that there is a path to a fully sustainable future for humanity, and our goal at Tesla is to accelerate progress on that path as much as humanly possible
14:36So, yeah, we're obviously ramping up Mega Pack production and expecting it to grow at a rate quite a bit faster than our vehicle output
14:53So, in conclusion, we are taking a view that we want to keep making and..
14:56Selling as many cars as we can, we believe we can keep pushing for strong volume growth while retaining the industry's best operating margins
15:04As we have mentioned many times before, we want to be the best manufacturer, but really, manufacturing technology will be our most important long-term strength
15:17We’ll talk more about our upcoming plans at the Investor Day
15:23And lastly, I want to once again thank all of our employees for delivering another record-breaking year
15:28Congratulations, guys
15:31Thanks, Delona, and I think Zach has some opening remarks as well
15:33 Yeah, thanks, Martin
15:35As Elon mentioned, 2022 was a terrific year for Tesla
15:40I also want to congratulate the Tesla team and also say thank you to..
15:43Our suppliers for your support during quite a volatile year
15:48On a full-year basis, revenue increased over 50 percent, operating income doubled, free cash flow increased over 50 percent, and our margins remained industry-leading
15:57Additionally, we continue to make progress on overhead efficiencies as non-GAAP operating expenses as a percentage of revenue improved further
16:06For Q4 specifically, sequential and annual margin was impacted by ASP reductions, as we are managing through COVID impacts in China, uncertainty around the consumer tax credit in the U.S., and a rising interest rate environment
16:20Note that in 2022, rising interest rates alone had effectively increased the price of our cars in the U.S
16:25by nearly 10 percent
16:31COGS per unit has increased on a year-over-year basis, driven primarily by three factors
16:36First, raw materials and inflation, led by lithium prices, discussed at length in previous calls
16:43Second, we are working through the early ramp inefficiencies of our Austin and Berlin in-house cell production factories
16:50Third, vehicle mix over the last year has moved more heavily towards Model Y, which carries a slight cost premium over Model 3
16:56Partially offsetting these impacts, we've continued to execute Tesla's controllable cost reductions in line with the progress we've made in prior years
17:04These improvements include our continued work to gradually move towards a regionally balanced build of vehicles
17:11The energy business had its strongest year yet across all metrics, led by steady improvement in both retail and commercial storage, while much work remains to grow this business and improve costs
17:23We believe we are on a good trajectory as we look towards 2023
17:27We are moving forward aggressively, leveraging our strengths and reducing costs
17:31 There are three key points I wanted to make here
17:34First, on demand — as Elon mentioned, customer interest in our products remains high
17:38Second, on cost reduction — we're holding steady on our plans to rapidly increase volume while improving overhead efficiency, which is the most effective method to maintain strength in our operating margins
17:49In particular, we're accelerating improvements in our new..
17:53Factories in Austin, Berlin, and in-house cells, where inefficiencies are the highest, but we are attacking every other area of cost and unwinding cost increases created from multiple years of COVID-related instability
18:02This includes logistics, expedites, accumulation of material buffers, part premiums, productivity, and overheads
18:10As an example, as the world transitions from an inflationary to a deflationary environment, we expect a strong partnership with our suppliers on this journey as well
18:21[Music] We've priced our products with a view toward a longer-term cost structure; thus, there will be an impact on operating margin in the near term
18:29However, we believe our margins will remain healthy and industry-leading
18:33Over the course of the year, third, we are continuing to ensure funding is prioritized for our long-term roadmap
18:38This includes expanding in-house cell production, bringing Cybertruck to market, developing our next-generation vehicle platform, expanding our manufacturing footprint, and growing the energy business
18:49We're looking forward to discussing these plans in more detail at our investor day in a month
18:56Thank you, thank you very much
19:00Zach, let's now go to investor questions
19:05The first question is: some analysts are claiming that Tesla's orders, net of cancellations, came in at a rate less than half of production in the fourth quarter
19:10This has raised concerns
19:11Can you elaborate on order trends so far? This year and how they compare to current production rates
19:18I think we've already answered that question
19:21Yes, exactly, the demand exceeds production
19:23And we actually are making some small price increases as a result
19:31Thank you
19:33The second question is in a similar vein: what is the initial reaction been to global price reductions in early Q1 2023, specifically in terms of order intake levels? We've answered that one as well
19:47Yeah, so let's go to the next one
19:49The next investor question is: will Tesla be able to take full advantage of advanced manufacturing production credits for battery packs? So, three thousand seven hundred dollars per Long Range Model 3 and Model Y
20:03It's forty-five dollars a kilowatt hour for..
20:06Autos and Energy Products, and how much does a Tesla expect to earn in the coming year from these credits? Um, I'll say a little bit about it, then I think Bjorn will add some
20:17Long term, we expect these, uh, the value of these credits to be very significant
20:22Um, you can do the math — if you were to get anyone, you're a thousand gigawatt-hours a year of production, or even a few hundred gigawatt-hours, um, it’s very significant
20:33So, um, but the credits do rely upon domestic manufacturing, and in the case of Panasonic, it was domestic manufacturing
20:46We're splitting the value of the credits
20:51So, uh, the value of the credits this year will not be gigantic, but I think it could be gigantic, and if it… Would it probably be very significant in the future? Yeah, just to add in, and put some boundaries on what we're expecting in terms of impact to Tesla for this year
21:17You know, different products will get different amounts of credit
21:21The regulations here are still in flux and continue to be updated
21:25So, this is just our best understanding at the moment
21:28But you know, we think on the order of 150 million to 250 million dollars per quarter this year, and growing over the course of the years as our volumes increase
21:36Part of the work we're doing here, which is part of what this incentive package is trying to incentivize, is — as Elon mentioned — to move more manufacturing onshore
21:47The United States, which is Tesla's plans anyway, and so I think we're pretty well positioned over the coming years to take advantage of this, but then also, you know, part of what the goal of this incentive package is, is to improve adoption from our customers
22:04We also want to use these incentives to improve affordability as we think about, you know, what the price points are in our products going forward
22:12When we were thinking about our pricing changes in the U.S
22:17a couple of weeks ago that we announced, we were looking at, you know, what the credit benefit to Tesla would be to make sure that customers are able to receive the benefit, not only from this that we're receiving to some extent, but also on the
22:31Consumer facing side, which is currently $7,500 per car of tax credit, assuming that you know, subject to the MSRP caps and the income caps
22:41So, you know, we want to use this to accelerate sustainable energy, which is our mission and also the goal of this bill
22:54Thank you very much
22:56The next question from investors is after recent price cuts, analysts expect that Tesla's automotive gross margin, excluding leasing and credits, will drop below 20%, with an average selling price around $47,000 across all models
23:12Where do you see the average selling price and gross margins after the price cuts? Yeah, I'll jump in on this
23:22So, you know, there's certainly a lot of uncertainty about how the year will unfold, but I'll..
23:27Share what's in our current forecast for the moment, so you know, based upon these metrics, we believe that we'll be above both of the metrics that are stated in the question: 20% Automotive gross margin excluding leases and regulatory credits, and a $47,000 average selling price across all models
23:42 Additionally, I want to make two other comments on this, just tactically, regarding sequential ASP changes from Q4 to Q1
23:50And just as a reminder, the ASP reduction is not as large as the reduction in configurator prices
24:00In Q4, we had backlog customers who were delivering cars at a lower price point, given that backlogs had been so long for much of 2022
24:09But there are also various programs in place that we used in Q4 that lowered..
24:14Um, uh, what the second comment I wanted to make here is that, you know, as a management team, we’re most focused on what our operating margin is
24:25So, you know, as other areas of the business become more important, particularly the energy business, which is growing faster than the vehicle business, and as we're heavily focused on operating leverage here, improving efficiency of our overheads, we think the right metric for us to be focused on is operating margin
24:45And so, I wanted to make sure that I shared that with the investor community as well because that is what we’re primarily managing to
24:50Now, [Music], yes, something that I think some of the smart retail investors understand, but I think a lot of others..
25:00Maybe don't
25:04Is that the um, every time we sell a car, it has the ability, just from uploading software, to have full self-driving enabled, and the possible driving is obviously getting better very rapidly
25:18So, um, that's actually a tremendous upside potential because all of those cars, with a few exceptions— I mean, only a small number of standard cars don't have Hardware 3— that means there are millions of cars where full self-driving can be sold at essentially 100% gross margin
25:42And the value of FSC grows as the autonomous capability advances, and when it becomes fully autonomous, that is a value increase in the fleet
25:59That might be the biggest asset value increase
26:04Of anything in history, yeah, thank you
26:06Let's go to the next investor question
26:13Since Elon started political influencing polls from Morning Consult, and you can show that Tesla, you can trust them with your life
26:18Sure
26:24Tesla's brand favorability was declining in 2022, and there was division among parties and lines
26:29Such brand damage can impact demand
26:33Does Tesla track favorability, and how will any brand image issues be mitigated? Well, let me check my Twitter account
26:40Okay, so I've got 127 million followers
26:43It continues to grow very rapidly
26:46That suggests that I am reasonably popular
26:50Now, my popularity might not be with some people, but for the vast majority of people who follow my account, it speaks for itself
26:58I am the most interactive
27:06Account, social media accounts—I think maybe in the world, certainly on Twitter, and that actually predated the Twitter acquisition
27:14So, I think Twitter is actually an incredibly powerful tool for driving demand for Tesla, and I really encourage companies out there of all kinds, automotive or otherwise, to make more use of Twitter, and to use their Twitter accounts in ways that are interesting, informative, and entertaining
27:36It will help them drive sales, just as it has with Tesla
27:41So, the net value of Twitter, apart from, you know, a few people complaining, is gigantic, obviously
27:52Thank you
27:57Let's go to the next question
28:02Please provide a detailed explanation of where you are on the 4680 ramp
28:07What are the… Current roadblocks and when do you expect to scale to 10,000 vehicles a week? Yep
28:12Thanks, Martin
28:16First, I just want to say congratulations and thanks to the Tesla 4680 team for achieving 1,000 units a week in Q4
28:21That was no small feat, definitely the result of more than a couple of years of hard work
28:28As far as where we stand in Texas, one of the four production lines is in operation, with the remaining three in stages of commissioning and installation
28:38Our main goal for 2023 as a 4680 team is to deliver a cost-effective ramp of 4680 batteries well ahead of the Cybertruck
28:46Focus areas include dialing in and improving the quality of high-volume supplied mechanical parts and increasing factory process yields as much as possible
28:55Between those two priorities, if..
28:57We achieve those key goals, we'll be well set up for a major 4680 battery cell year in 2024
29:03Thank you
29:08The next investor question is: Elon said previously that FSD Hardware 4 will most likely come first in Cybertruck
29:14Is that still the current plan? Do you expect there to be an upgrade path for Hardware 3 cars to Hardware 4? Yeah, Tesla will have Hardware 4 rollout, and, you know, for 2023, Cybertruck will not be a really significant contributor, the bottom line, I bet, but it will be into next year
29:42So it's an incredible product
29:43I can't wait to drive it personally
29:45It will be the car that I drive every day, actually—just I'm wearing the T-shirt with the smashed glass—and it's just one of those..
29:55Products that only come along once in a while and are really special
30:02So, yeah, doing it
30:05 With respect to upgrading cars on FSD Hardware 3, I don't think that will be needed
30:13Hardware 3 will not be as good as Hardware 4, but I'm confident that Hardware 3 will so far exceed the safety of the average human
30:21 How do we ultimately get to, let's say, for argument's sake, if Hardware 3 can be, say, two or three hundred percent safer than a human, Hardware 4 might be five or six hundred percent safer
30:37It will be a large leap beyond that
30:40But what really matters is whether we are improving the average safety on the road
30:46 So, a bit, but it is the cost and difficulty of retrofitting Hardware 3 with..
30:54Hardware four is quite significant, so it would not be, I think, economically feasible to do so
31:03Thank you
31:14The next question is for Zach
31:26Zach, when do you think Tesla Insurance will become a big enough revenue source to warrant providing more details in the financials of the business so investors can compare it to other insurance companies? Yeah, I think it's probably going to take some time before this business is large enough for specific financial disclosures, but I'm happy to provide an update on where we stand in the business
31:37We're currently at a three hundred million dollar annual premium run rate as of the end of last year; we're growing 20% a quarter, so it's going faster than the growth in our vehicle business
31:47And in the states where we're operating, on average 17 percent of the customers in those states are using a Tesla Insurance product
31:58That number continues to increase as we spend more time in these markets, and we see most of the adoption occurring when folks take delivery of a new car and are setting up insurance for the first time, rather than switching insurance later when they already have coverage
32:15There is an inherent stickiness in the insurance business
32:17As a broader reminder of the motivation for starting this business, it was to improve, and still is to improve, the total cost of ownership of our cars, given that we are seeing high premiums from third-party insurance companies
32:27And that remains our priority here
32:37Yeah, we'll obviously run this as a healthy business, but we want to make sure we keep our costs low and insurance stays affordable for our customers
32:47Yeah, and so there are two really important side benefits for Tesla Insurance that are worth mentioning, one of which Zach alluded to, which is that just by Tesla offering insurance for our cars at a competitive rate, it causes other car insurance companies to offer better rates for Teslas
33:06So it has a bigger effect than you'd think because it improves the total cost of ownership or insurance costs even when they don't use Tesla Insurance, because now, you know, the other providers have to compete with Tesla
33:21Cannot, uh, charge outrageous insurance for Teslas
33:26This is great, so it has an amplified effect, very important that it also gives us a good feedback loop into minimizing the cost of repairs for Tesla's vehicles worldwide, because we obviously want to minimize the cost of repairing a Tesla if it's in a collision, for Tesla insurance
33:48Previously, we didn't actually have a good insight into that because the other insurance companies would cover the cost, and in some cases, the costs were unreasonably high
34:00So we've actually adjusted the design of the car and made changes in the software of the car to minimize the cost of repairs
34:11I obviously aim to minimize, but first, the best repair is no repair at all
34:17Repair avoids the accident entirely, which, since every Tesla comes with the most advanced active safety in the world, means whether or not you buy Full Self-Driving, you still get the intelligence of Full Self-Driving or active safety, active collision prevention
34:31This system is giving us really good feedback, reducing costs, total cost of ownership, and figuring out how to get if somebody's car is in an accident
34:47Most accidents are actually small; they involve a broken fender or scratched side of the car, or something similar
34:54They’re not major accidents
35:01We're actually solving how to get someone's car repaired very quickly and efficiently, and back in use
35:08Their hands, and like I said, those improvements actually apply to old cars
35:12And then we're making—just to emphasize another key point—because some of these points might be less obvious, I apologize for being repetitive, but it's remarkable how small changes in the design of the bumper and improving the logistics of spare parts are providing the spare parts needed for collision repair, which have an enormous effect on the repair costs
35:43So if you're waiting for a part to get repaired and that part takes a month, now you've got a month of having to rent another car
35:54It's extremely expensive, and of course, you're missing the car that you love and would actually want to drive
35:58So, this..
36:02This is actually a very significant effect on total cost of ownership and customer happiness
36:06Thank you
36:10The next question from investors is: Is Cybertruck production still on track for mid-year? We do expect production to start, maybe sometime this summer, but I always try to downplay the start of production because the start is always very slow
36:33However, it increases exponentially, but it's always very slow at first, so I wouldn't put too much stock in early production
36:44It's kind of like when does volume production actually happen? And that's next year
36:49Just to emphasize on that, we started installation of all the production equipment here in Giga Texas
36:56Castings, GA, General..
36:59Assembly body shops
37:03We built all our beta vehicles, some more are coming still in the next month, but as you said, the ramp will really come in 2024
37:06Exactly
37:17Thank you
37:27The last investor question is, with near-infinite global demand for energy storage, where should Tesla build the next Megapack factories? How many are needed on each continent? It's not something we— I think we would, I think we'll provide an update about that in the future, but it's something we're thinking about very carefully, really kind of like what is the fastest path to a thousand gigawatt-hours a year of production
37:38And you'll see announcements come out later this year and next that address that question
37:46Thank you
37:49Okay, and now let's go to— Analyst questions
37:53The first analyst question comes from Roadlatch from Wolf Research
37:59Roadlatch, feel free to unmute your mic
38:01I think I'm unmuted
38:03Can you hear me? Yes, we can
38:05Okay, thank you
38:08Just, firstly, it sounds like your 1.8 million unit volume indication for this year is somewhat more supply constrained and demand constrained than I expected
38:19I have a follow-up on the cost of it— is that an accurate statement? Well, okay, I mean, our internal production potential is actually closer to 2 million vehicles, but we're saying 1.8 million because I don't know, there just always seems to be some major issue happening somewhere on Earth, and, you know, we don't control it
38:37It feels like earthquakes
38:55Tsunamis, wars, you know, pandemics, etc., so, um, if it's smoother — actually, you know, without some big supply chain interruption or a massive problem — we actually have the potential to do two million cars this year
39:12We're not committing to that, but I'm just saying that's the potential
39:17And I think there would be demand for that, too
39:19Yeah, thanks for clarifying that
39:21And on the cost side, the numbers that we just saw from you, as you pointed out, were way down due to the 4860 ramp, the Berlin and Austin Giga factories, and their processes, not at full rate
39:36Can you give us a bit of an indication of the headwinds you're absorbing from those things, like you did last quarter? And then, lastly, on costs, do you think that we can tease..
39:49Here's an interesting data point from this announcement that you just made last night, regarding where battery costs are headed
39:59If I'm correct, it looks like the investment cost per kilowatt-hour is less than half of what I've seen anywhere else, maybe around thirty dollars per kilowatt-hour for that capacity
40:06I don't think we want to specify the exact number, but it's interesting to note that the size of Giga Nevada, which is allocated to produce 100 gigawatt-hours, is a small fraction of the size needed to currently produce about 35 gigawatt-hours
40:26 I mean, the goals we outlined at Battery Day focus on reducing the investment required to deploy cell manufacturing
40:34That's been a key focus of ours, and the team is doing a good job in hitting those targets
40:45Getting hits on that focus, yeah, and it goes back to the point I was making, and, uh, you know, I said that several years ago
40:52I think Tesla's, um, really, the competitive strength that will be by far the hardest for other companies to replicate is Tesla being just damn good at manufacturing, having the most advanced manufacturing technology in the world
41:04Um, and if you've got that sort of advanced manufacturing toolbox, you can apply it to many things, and we're applying it now to battery cells
41:14I shall say that we have other products in development; we're not going to announce them, obviously
41:20Um, but they're very exciting, and I think they'll blow people's minds when we reveal them
41:28Tesla has the most exciting product of any company on Earth by a long shot, and, um, you know, we're going to go to, you know, we'll continue to—I think—be in that position
41:48We have more great ideas than we know what to do with here, so, um, the future is very exciting
41:53As I said in the last call, I, you know, there's going to be bumps along the way, and, and, uh, you know, I think we'll probably have a, you know, pretty difficult reception this year, probably
42:05I hope not, but probably
42:08So, you, you know, one can't predict the short-term stock value because, um, you know, when there's a recession and people panic in the stock market, then, you know, prices of stocks, especially value stocks, can drop sometimes to surprisingly low levels, but long-term, I am convinced that Tesla will be the most valuable company on Earth
42:32Thank you
42:36And I think Zach, there was a question on, uh, cost headwinds in Q4
42:44Yeah
42:52Um, I mean, our weighted average COGS for the company, you know, if you were to assume Austin and Berlin were at the cost structure of our other factories, it was on the order of 2,000 to 2,500 dollars of headwinds
43:00So, I think from there, you come back into the margin impact of those factories as of the end of Q4
43:06Thank you very much
43:08And let's go to the next question from Pierre Faragu from New Street Research
43:11Here, please go ahead
43:14Thanks, Martin
43:16Can you hear me well? Yes
43:19Excellent
43:22Uh, Zach, I actually, I’d like to follow up on the data point you just gave on costs
43:25If I look back at the Kirchberg, uh, you guys… Below thirty-six thousand dollars in the middle of 2021, and then the number went up as you had to face inflation and input costs, as well as the ramp of Berlin and Texas
43:44This quarter, I think we are close to 40K, and we peaked maybe close to 42,000 at some point last year
43:48So my question from here is, how much time do you think it will take to get back to this kind of 36K, which would mean that Berlin and Texas, as well as input costs, are normalizing? Is that something we can hope to see this year, or is that too optimistic? You know, the Austin and Berlin ramp inefficiencies in 4680 battery cells will make a substantial difference in the cost structure
44:06Progress on that over the course of the year is within Tesla's control
44:24We're doing a lot of work on cost reduction outside of that, and we talked about supply chain costs, expedites, logistics, attacking everything—you know, the raw materials and inflation side, where lithium is the large driver
44:42This was a meaningful source of cost increase for us
44:49You know, we'll have to see where lithium prices go, and we're not fully exposed to lithium prices, but I think, in general, based on our forecast, the cost per car of lithium in 2023 will be higher than in 2022
45:02So, you know, that's a headwind that we would have to overcome to return to those levels, so I don't think we'll get there this year
45:11But I think we'll make progress, and we can continue to find ways to offset these raw material costs that we don't have control over
45:19You know, is there anything on that? Yeah, like on the non-cell raw materials, we are beginning to capture benefits from index tapering, but due to the length of various supply chains, it does take time before this is reflected in our financials
45:35And while aluminum is down about 20% year over year and steel is down about 30% year over year, the global non-cell raw materials market continues to be influenced by geopolitical situations in Europe, high production costs, labor cost increases, energy spikes, and disruptions due to natural disasters like typhoons in Korea
45:56Four months ago, during the pandemic lockdowns, we believed that meaningful price corrections would ultimately come, but it remains uncertain exactly when
46:03In the meantime, we continue to redesign our supply chain to make it more efficient and work with our supplier partners to find more efficiencies, streamline logistics and transportation to reduce costs
46:16Sorry, do you want to say something? I was going to say, um, we're also, you know, our fleet is starting to mature, uh, the three-way fleet, and we're gathering a lot of data out of that fleet to understand how we can, um, sort of bring some margin that we didn't know we had out of the product
46:43So, over the course of 2023, on the powertrain side, we're actually going to go after, sort of..
46:47Some materials are where we're paying for more performance than we need or we have more content than necessary without impacting reliability at all
46:55And you know, that will actually add up to a pretty significant cost reduction on the powertrain side over the course of 2023
47:02So we're not just relying on supply; we're also taking design actions to reduce costs
47:05If the recession is serious — and I think it probably will be, but I hope it isn't — that would lead to meaningful decreases in almost all of our input costs
47:24I would expect to see deflation in our input costs most likely, which would then lead to, yeah, better margins
47:33I'm just guessing here, but this is the general idea
47:37Would be my guess, thank you so much
47:41So, as a quick follow-up, you mentioned I was thinking about FSD, and when you look at the situation today compared to a year ago, it's been amazing in the quality of the product, but also how it's rolled out
48:00I was wondering how much this is impacting the adoption rate of FSD today
48:04Do you already see that people are becoming more excited about FSD because they see it around them, on 400,000 cars, and they recognize the value of the service already? Or is it too early to really observe that, to expect an increase in the adoption rate? The trend is very strong towards use of FSD, and as you alluded to, with each incremental improvement, the..
48:30Enthusiasm, obviously, increases, and so, I think something that still a lot of people out there don't quite appreciate is that Tesla, of course, they like Tesla is as much a software company as a hardware company
48:55But Tesla is really one of the world's leading AI companies
48:56This is a big deal, both AI on the software side and on the hardware side, with the Hardware 3 inference computer
49:04It's still the most efficient inference computer in the world, just by being at this point five years old from the design point of view, and with hardware coming and beyond that, with significant leaps
49:19And the Dojo computer, we expect to be..
49:23Using that operationally at Tesla later this year
49:31Um, so, uh, and we're seeing just a lot of world-class AI talent join the company
49:43Um, there's also the long-term potential of Optimus, where we were able to use our expertise in electric motors, electronics, batteries, and advanced manufacturing to create a humanoid robot that is actually useful and can be produced at high volume with exceptional capabilities, thanks to the autopilot AI
50:14You know, because the car is like a robot on four wheels, and the Optimus is a robot on legs
50:27As we get closer and closer to solving real-world AI, and we don't see anyone even close to us in achieving this, um, the value I..
50:37I think you appreciate this, and a few others do, but most don’t know what I’m talking about
50:49So, um, but it’s, it’s the thing that you know has order of magnitude potential, market cap improvement for Tesla
50:59Thank you
51:02And the next question comes from Alex Potter from Piper Sandler
51:06You hear me, guys? Yeah? Yes
51:10Okay, great
51:12Um, so a quick one on FSD
51:17This, I guess, is for Zach
51:19Obviously, you unlocked some deferred revenue in the quarter, which will translate, presumably, into higher margins on every incremental sale going forward, as long as people opt in for FSD
51:29But I was wondering if you’re able to disclose the percentage of the fifteen thousand dollar price that you’re not going to be able to recognize as revenue
51:38Front rather than deferred
51:40Yeah, I mean, the way that we've structured this is a full self-driving package with two components
51:47There's Enhanced Autopilot, the price of which is listed on the website; we fully recognize that
51:53Then there's an incremental component, which is for the additional features of Full Self-Driving, and we've released a portion of that
52:01The remaining minority of the total package will be released over time as software updates are available
52:08In our shareholder letter, in addition to disclosing the dollar amount of the deferred revenue release, we also included the dollar value of the remaining unreleased deferred revenue that will be released
52:24Over time, with future software updates, okay
52:27Great
52:31And then maybe one additional question here on the incremental capacity in Nevada
52:35The 4680s that you're planning—it's a lot of batteries, obviously, and presumably you won't be putting all of those in the Tesla Semi
52:44So, I guess two questions about that incremental capacity
52:47First, is it correct to assume that all of those 4680s are going to be more or less fungible and usable in your entire range of products? And if the answer is yes, then if you had to guess, how do you think that 100 gigawatt-hours would be allocated between your various end markets? I don't know; this is a bit too much guessing at this point
53:07Yeah, but if the..
53:08yeah
53:10Um, yeah
53:11Um, I mean, you're right; not all the 100
53:12Gigawatt hours are going to go into the Class 8 semi-trucks, that is correct
53:23We can just say, like, we, you know, I alluded to, you know, a number of future products; those future products would use the 4680 cells
53:26Thank you
53:29The next question comes from George from Kindred Research
53:32Hi, everyone, thanks for taking my question
53:40So, you recently adjusted prices, and that may have put many of your competitors on the back foot
53:47In addition to that, you know, capital markets have recently become a lot tougher
53:52So, with those factors in mind, I'm curious how you see the current competitive landscape changing over the next few years and who you see as your chief competitors five years from now
54:02About five years? Five years is a long time
54:07Um, foreign AI team, uh
54:10Until late last night, we were just asking each other, like, who do we think is close to Tesla in terms of a general solution for self-driving? And we still don't really know who that might even be, just in the second place
54:38Yeah, it really seems like right now, I don't think you could see second place with a telescope, so at least we can’t
54:54That won't last forever, though, so in five years, I’d expect someone else to have figured it out
55:05I don't think it’s any of the car companies we're aware of, but I’m just guessing that someone might eventually figure it out
55:15Beyond that, Elon, in the vehicle space, even though the market is shrinking, we’re still growing
55:29EVs have doubled almost year over year, so whoever keeps up with the trend of EVs is going to be your competitor
55:37And you know, the Chinese are scary, we always say that
55:40But, you know, I a lot of people always look at the EV markets here, but we always look at it as how much of the total vehicle market we have, and we're just going to keep growing in that space
55:54There's still 95% for us to go get
55:55Yeah, and I don't want to say, like, uh, you know, I think we have a lot of respect for the car companies in China
56:03They are the most competitive in the world, that is our experience, and the Chinese market is the most competitive
56:09They work the hardest and they work the smartest
56:10That's so, a lot of respect for the Chinese car industry
56:14Companies that we're competing against, um, and so if I would guess, there were probably some companies out of China that are the most likely, you know, two to three seconds ahead of Tesla
56:26Um, and we are at the Tesla team is winning in China
56:30Yeah, um, and I think we actually are able to attract the best talent in China, so hopefully that continues
56:43So, yeah, um, super fired up about the future, and yeah, but it's going to be great
56:53Just as a follow-up, um, the Inflation Reduction Act has created huge tax incentives for commercial vehicles
56:59You mentioned an incredibly interesting product pipeline
57:01Are there maybe some plans to accelerate commercial vehicle form factors outside of the Tesla Semi to help accelerate EV adoption? Well, I was..
57:14Basically saying that yes, but I'm not going to give you details because this is a nice try, nice try
57:21Yeah, of course, of course
57:28Um, so you know, we have to always look at, like, what is the limiting factor for new vehicles because if, for the longest time, we've been constrained on overall cell, you know, lithium-ion production output
57:35Um, and so people said, like, why not bring this other car to market tomorrow? Well, it doesn't really help if all you're doing is shuffling around the batteries from one car to another
57:51In fact, it hurts because you add complexity, but you don't add incremental volume
57:55So it's sort of pointless, in fact, counterproductive, to add model complexity without solving the
57:58Availability of lithium-ion batteries, so as we saw, as we get to a new product introduction, we want the cells to be available for that new product to use those cells without cannibalizing the cells of the other cars
58:21That's the actual limiting factor for new models, not anything else, really
58:25Thank you
58:29Let's go to the next question
58:31The next question comes from William Stein from Truist
58:37Great, thanks for taking my question
58:38Elon, you started to answer this earlier, but I would like to ask about the AI elements of your business and ask if you could comment on progress around Dojo and Optimus, and your anticipation for the likelihood, for example, for the company to..
59:00Disconnect the GPU cluster in favor of Dojo and achieve some market accomplishments with Optimus
59:10Yeah, I mean, obviously, since we're still at the early stages, there are big error bars on any predictions, so it's, you know, like, is it possible? I think if you predict the long term, but it's hard to predict the timing between now and then
59:32But we think Dojo will be competitive with the innovative H100 at the end of this year, and hopefully surpass it next year
59:46The key is, I think, what the energy usage is required for a given amount of processing
01:00:00For instance, for training a frame of video, what is the energy cost needed to do that training? And we think, probably, and at least we said this already, actually I had AID too, so it's not new information, but we do see potential for an order of magnitude improvement, relative to GPUs
01:00:27What GPUs can do for Dojo, which is obviously very specialized for AI training, or it's specifically designed for AI training, it's not used for other tasks; it wouldn't be great for them
01:00:46But we should be extremely good for AI training
01:00:47So just like if you create an ASIC for something, it's going to be better than a CPU
01:00:51In this sense, it's sort of like a giant ASIC
01:00:55We're able to, since we're operating one of the biggest GPU classes in the world already, we have a good sense of how efficient the GPU can be
01:01:11Clusters operate and what each character needs to do in order to be competitive
01:01:17Um, but we think that it does have a fundamental architectural advantage because, because it's designed not to be—you know, the GPU is trying to do many, many things for many people
01:01:31I'm going to try to do graphics, video games, it's—you know, doing crypto mining, it's doing a lot of things
01:01:38We're just doing one thing, and that is training
01:01:46We're also optimizing the low-level software so it has a very sort of experimental level, so it's just insanely good at efficient training
01:01:57The intercommunication between the modules is extremely high
01:02:02You're not going across an Ethernet cable; it's like, so anyway, the..
01:02:09Know this: we see a path to an order of magnitude improvement, uh, in the energy efficiency for you per, um, given unit of training, but we also have to achieve that
01:02:25And so, like, when will it be achieved? It's hard to say, but uh, we'd reduce your path to get there
01:02:33Then also, an inference, like, once you've got something trained, um, well, if you want to have a product, um, that's a consequence of that training, and that product may not be anything to do with cars, then uh, the efficiency of inference is extremely important, Andrew
01:02:52So, we also have by far the most efficient inference computer in, uh, at the moment, with the FSD computer in the car
01:03:03You know, this has potential for products that make it the right part, even really in automotive
01:03:11Thank you
01:03:18William, do you have a follow-up? Um, yeah, it sounds like the 1.8 million units you expect this year is supply, not demand limited
01:03:26Supply, it sounds like, is limited by the lithium batteries
01:03:32If you were to become demand limited, can you talk to us about your propensity to use price, and, uh, your relatively high industry margins to grow units and share? To be clear, the 1.8 million is not cell supply limited
01:03:49That, and yeah, I mean, we did address that number earlier in the call
01:03:59I'm not going to answer
01:04:02Yeah, it's roughly, you know, a sales supply is roughly matched with that
01:04:06And this is, you know, if we get lucky, it could be more
01:04:13And then the rest would go into stationary storage, the Powerwall and MegaPack
01:04:18So, um, yeah, so true
01:04:19Okay, let's have the final question from Adam Jonas
01:04:25Hi, uh, Elon
01:04:29First question is, is it time for Tesla to significantly expand the captive financing company when you only have like four and a half billion of these receivables? It's basically nothing compared to other big auto companies
01:04:48 Follow-up: I'm Zach
01:04:50Maybe just press the answer
01:04:52 Yeah, I mean, the way that we've been using captive financing so far is to plug what we believe to be gaps in the market of existing third-party products
01:05:05We have a couple of offerings in Europe; we do loans for our energy business
01:05:10Retail energy business here in the US, we do leasing, and we do a small amount of US loans that are very targeted
01:05:22And so we're using..
01:05:25Captives to support market caps, as I mentioned, so basically as a vehicle to support vehicle sales, to make sure customers have access
01:05:33I do think there's an opportunity here to continue to grow this
01:05:40We are growing it slowly here
01:05:43It is a consumer of cash, so we're being cautious about how we do that, but you know, the plumbing is in place to do a lot more here
01:05:51I think we'll have to see how things unfold over the course of the year and make decisions in real time as to how much we ramp it up versus ramp it back
01:06:03If we see a severe recession this year, which, like I said, hopefully we don't, in severe recessions, cash is king—big time—because it's in such short supply
01:06:13So we want to be cautious about using cash for loans and that sort of thing
01:06:18Thing for cars
01:06:21Um, you know, I feel we're in a very strong position to get through a recession because we really don't have any debt
01:06:29Um, and we've got over 20 billion dollars of cash, which is great
01:06:36Um, I was in the fact that the cash is earning a ridiculous return now, a good return, so it's not non-trivial
01:06:43The interest rate is, it actually means the 20 billion is earning quite a good amount
01:06:48Um, so, um, and I made this point on Twitter a few times
01:06:52I'm sure a lot of people in this call understand the, you know, the basic value of a security is a function of the risk-free rate, or we'll see how risk-free it really is, but the absolute rate
01:07:13So if you've got, you know, I think, correctly, the S&P 500 has a long-term rate of return of..
01:07:18Roughly six percent, and so I think the Fed needs to be very cautious about having a Fed rate that potentially exceeds six percent
01:07:29If, like, if we see deflation, and I think we are seeing deflation, then you would add the deflation number to the risk-free rate from the Fed
01:07:43As that starts to exceed six percent, now you're starting to exceed the long-term return of the S&P 500, and it starts to become questionable as to why, why not just put your money in tables or a savings account essentially, instead of in the S&P 500
01:07:59If the S&P 500 is variable and the package rate is not, this is so basically, the Fed is at risk of crushing the value of all equities for quite a serious danger
01:08:17Thanks, Elon, and just a follow-up—I don’t want to steal thunder from March 1st down in Austin, but how close are we to that step change improvement in battery cost, where you could sell an EB for under 25 or 30 thousand dollars and actually generate a profit, a kind of real moving assembly line moment in manufacturing? Again, I don’t want to steal the thunder, but if you wanted to wrap up with thoughts there, that’d be helpful
01:08:50I mean, I’d love to answer—you know, I if I were you, I’d probably be asking the same question
01:08:56But we would be jumping the gun on future announcements
01:09:00Fantastic, thank you very much, everyone, for all your good questions, and we will see you again in three months’ time
01:09:09Thank you, thank you, goodbye
01:09:11[Music] Thank you.