00:00So, Tom White joins me for an instant reaction to this rate decision, and the conversation that Bob Brusca, you followed and have known him forever as well, came up and said, "Can the Fed really afford to skip this rate hike?" Because the next meeting, right, we think about that, we have midterm elections, and so then it pushes it back to December
00:22We haven't tamed inflation in five years, and Walsh made it known that that was something he was concerned about
00:29Some of your thoughts, Tom? >> Yeah, not surprising
00:31You know, the CME FedWatch tool had it, you know, inked in for about a 90% chance that we'd get that rate hike
00:37We got the 25 basis points, unanimous
00:39That's one thing that I'm actually pretty surprised about—that it was
00:46Unanimous
00:53Um, because I thought maybe Waller would dissent, uh, maybe some dissenters on the 50 basis point hike side, but obviously they had some decisions and came to a unanimous vote after the three dissenters we had last meeting
01:00I think it's also key to pencil in, as far as the guidance moving forward, according to the Fed, that they expect the median forecast shows one additional 25 basis point hike in 2026
01:13So, the CME FedWatch tool has been right on that
01:15Also, domestic spending has been resilient despite elevated uncertainty
01:21Sixteen of the eighteen participants expect at least one more increase in 2026
01:24A few penciling in rates ending next year below 4%
01:30Now, the CME FedWatch tool was pricing in three hikes into March
01:32Meeting of next year
01:35So, we'll have to wait and see on that
01:37Inflation remains elevated, drops earlier, description that owing in part to supply shocks
01:46Policy makers see a 2.3% GDP growth in 2026 versus 2.2% in June, and they see a longer-run growth of 2% to 2.2%, which was what they indicated in June on 2%
02:03They also see end of 2026 PCE inflation at 3.7% versus 3.6% in June, so that was up slightly
02:12Core inflation is seen at about 3.4% versus 3.3%
02:18And if you look at the median rate forecast for the end of the year, about 4.125%, so that would be another 25 basis point hike from the current 3.75% to 4.0%, which they raised it to today
02:32So yeah, everything is coming in line
02:35You're not..
02:37Seeing a big reaction in the equity market right now, uh, Nicole, or the yield market
02:42We were down four basis points on the 10-year before this, uh, this decision came out
02:44We're at those levels
02:47The S&P 500 is up about 2.3/10 of a percent
02:49So no real reaction in the equity market, maybe calming and lending some credibility to the Fed in this higher-than-expected inflationary environment that we are in
03:05Probably taking into account the fact that crude oil is still above 100 dollars a barrel, uh, also
03:09But if you look at the moves that we've seen in yields over the past 10 to 20 sessions, we're up—you know, we were up nearly 35 to 40 basis points
03:20So the market had already priced this reaction in, probably on the basis that we were going to..
03:26Get that 25 basis point hike, the first one since 2023
03:30Nicole >> Yeah, it really is
03:33And in that time, that was the end of a hiking cycle that began in 2022 with 525 basis points, and that was the final hike there in July 2023
03:42And some could argue, what will Jerome Powell say at 2:30? Will he say this is the unwind of the cuts that we saw in 2025, the three cuts? I mean, if we're expecting one more hike this year, as you noted, 16 of the 18 Federal Open Market Committee members are leading towards that
04:01At the same time, here, you've had elevated inflation
04:05If the Fed is going to stick to the 2% target, we've been nowhere near that
04:09And when you look before COVID, after COVID, while we've come off the peaks of COVID, we..
04:14They are still not below those COVID levels or back to those COVID levels
04:18So, we have been elevated for over 60 months, and we still have an economy where, as they said, economic activity is expanding
04:25You still have jobs that are looking pretty good
04:28The job gains have kept pace overall
04:31Domestic spending has been resilient
04:33We saw that with the numbers this morning, those retail sales numbers, which really wowed Wall Street
04:38So, if there was a time to do the hike, was it now, Tom? >> Yeah, probably because the market was kind of, uh, begging for it at this point, uh, and, you know, after the CPI and PPI data came in mostly in line, on the month-over-month basis, the core was up a tenth of a percent above what they expected
04:59But remember this, Nicole, for the people who were saying that we shouldn't get a rate hike at this meeting, the core CPI at 2.4% is the lowest level in five years
05:07Why are we hiking in that type of environment where the trends are still downward outside of these supply shocks? Now, you can probably attribute that maybe to some of the policy mistakes in 2024 ahead of the election, when they were starting to cut interest rates while inflation was higher than it is right now on a core basis
05:31So, that's probably going to be part of the discussions moving forward
05:36But I think with the tariffs getting elevated at this point, the higher interest rates, energy prices ramping to the upside, and you mentioned
05:46Retail sales were a really good number, uh, this past month in August—1.2% versus 8% expected
05:54The Atlanta Fed GDP Now forecasted a hike to 5.1% for this current quarter, up from just under four and a half percent
06:03So, the consumer is still resilient at this point
06:06So, where is that bridge, Nicole? And I think that's what the Fed needs to figure out, is, hey, even with rising inflationary pressures, especially from energy and rising interest rates, the consumer was still out there spending
06:19There might be some seasonality due to back-to-school spending and a reversal of what we saw in July, which was minus 0.5%
06:30So, they're trying to figure out where this is heading—despite rising inflation, yields are rising, crude oil prices are..
06:34Rising, but the consumer is staying resilient
06:40The jobs market probably lends a lot of credence to that as well
06:41Um, so yeah, this is going to be a battle
06:46I'm interested to hear what Kevin Worsh says because he's still got a battle on his hands, and I don't know if this is going to be the start of a rate hike cycle or just a one-and-done
07:00Great points, and I am also excited to hear what he says
07:05I think you made a fantastic point, and a point that we'll discuss next with John Lonsky, Tom, about the fact that inflation has been trending lower, so why would they need to hike if it's trending down? Then maybe the other side would argue..
07:22Look at, um, missish, and look out five years from now
07:26They still see elevated inflation above 3%, then we'd be a decade above the 2% desired inflation target
07:32So, that's a great conversation to have, but I think you made the right point that it has been trending in the right direction
07:41I look forward to more conversations throughout this half hour and then hearing Kevin Walsh at 2:30
07:44Tom White, thank you so much for breaking down this important news with us here on the Watch List
07:50Tom White, every day on Fast Market at noon.