00:00The live stream today, we're going to be covering and airing the FOMC meeting, and we'll get into all of that for you
00:04But before we get started, because we have news, of course, that we'll cover, let's, of course, thank our sponsor, and that is Tandem
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00:56Alright, guys, let's get into the topic for today
00:58And if you're brand new to this live stream, one thing that we will do—since we often air these live—is we'll analyze what market indicators we might be seeing, but then we'll focus on Kevin Warsh's address, which he'll give along with the press corps
01:06That is what we want to watch because those statements coming in are very important
01:26From the Fed Chair to the press, that is usually when we get an indicator of forward-looking statements
01:34And this is a very critical time because the Fed has not necessarily been giving any kind of indications on forward-looking statements
01:41So, this may be the meeting to watch
01:43Of course, the news, as we start recording, is that the Federal Reserve leaves interest rates unchanged
01:49So, it is a pause, remaining at 3.5 to 3.75 percent, and this is what we anticipated
01:56I think a lot of people, even though Citadel was calling for a rate hike, most people were in a position of saying a pause was the route
02:05Now, it doesn't mean that this will be the case, that it holds in October and into the fall, because now people are looking at the..
02:13Potential for possibly an October, uh, rate hike
02:15So, be on the lookout for that
02:19And if you look at this in comparison to what has been going on in the past, and this is kind of an interesting, uh, statement right here, when you put this into perspective, since the end of 2008, that was the financial crisis, the Fed has held 135 FOMC meetings, which is what was going to be aired today
02:35Four of them, or 3%, have seen the odds of a rate hike sit between 30 and 60% in the days leading up to the decision
02:43According to Bianco Markets, they have rarely been this uncertain, and that's the point — we saw a rise in potential rate hikes even on this meeting late last week and early this week, and I think this has been the condition of the..
03:00The market is really just not knowing how the Fed is going to be able to deal with this
03:04Within that, you've got, of course, some macro factors that continue to put pressure on the market
03:10One of course is Trump, who's continuing to do tit-for-tat with Iran
03:15We have targets now hit in American targets, hit in Jordan, and of course, with that, comes a penalty in the market—right there, 66 to 70 billion wiped out from US stocks today
03:26And this, of course, was as Trump was telling us he's going to beat the, you know, what out of Iran, and he's very upset with these negotiations because there are none
03:37We continue to go on, and this looks like it's going to lead on for quite a bit more time
03:42I think this is the problem we have faced with markets
03:47Some markets are a little bit—I would say—numb to this right now
03:49But at the same time, we are seeing pretty significant issues that will cause problems for the Fed
03:57And part of that, I wonder how Kevin Warsh is going to deal with this today, given the news, but more importantly, is the news of this right here, which is oil back up to $84
04:09And this is, of course, after the situation that just happened with Iran
04:13Remember, this dropped down to the low 70s or high 70s, which is typically the hot zone—around $75 a barrel—according to my oil friend
04:22That is the kind of sweet spot for oil companies to make money but not be too hard on the economy
04:28Energy being one of the biggest catalysts that drive the issue around consumers
04:32Inflation
04:36So energy, of course, as you guys feel it, everybody out there is feeling that
04:40The price at the pump is now starting to get hit
04:42Now, these whipsaw approaches are very difficult because I think, you probably see this, guys, that the whipsaw of gas prices between, you know, if you're under, you know, $4 a gallon right now in some places, up to as high as $4.50, just like overnight
04:58So, uh, that is an issue right now that I think will continue to put pressure on the macro side of where the market is going to be heading
05:06If you look at just an example of crude oil and charting this all the way back here, we'll go into February of this year
05:15Essentially, that's when it began
05:18The volatility has been somewhat up and..
05:20Then back down here in the 80s
05:23This got down here to the lowest when we thought we had a deal
05:25We were back at 60 bucks a barrel, 68 bucks a barrel
05:28And then, of course, when that got broken and the ceasefire stopped, and of course Israel continues their campaigns, then the strikes start, and with that, oil prices rise
05:42So, this is the issue we are facing right now
05:45Don't forget, guys, if you want, we may try to take a few questions for you at the end, or some of them maybe even during the meeting
05:53Just so you know, the way we do this is we'll air this
05:59Usually, I'll give comments after we listen to Kevin Warsh, and he'll go on at 2:30, and that's when that will go live
06:07Typically, most of the time, they're on time
06:09And immediately, they'll go into questions
06:11And these questions, as I said earlier, are very critical to look at for forward-looking statements because this will determine, and really what we're watching for, is whether he is hawkish in the sense of potentially a rate increase before the end of the year
06:27If he is, then that could spell problems for crypto in general, but it could also spell problems, I think, for traditional markets that are going to be an issue as we go forward
06:40Um, and if you look at the markets right now, they are all kind of looking at whether we should hike or not hike
06:47Listen to what CNBC said
06:50>> Hike, hold, or cut
06:51>> Hike, >> hike now, hike tomorrow
06:52Why? >> Hike? >> Because the economy is fine
06:55Uh Inflation risk is to the upside
06:58The Fed cut 75 basis points last year
07:00The last move was very contentious when it was in December, to guard against unwanted weakness in the labor market
07:07The labor market is healthier, it has stabilized, and it's improving
07:10Take back that easing
07:13And if you're Kevin Worsh, and you're looking at the trends in the data, you want the meetings to be live
07:16This is a perfect opportunity to hike because it's not going to be a total shock, but it will be a mild surprise relative to market pricing
07:24And you move away from the Bernanke, Yellen, Powell timeline of always signaling a bias and then reconfirming, let's say at Jackson Hole, and then doing it at the September meeting, etc
07:35I agree that a hike could be warranted
07:37Here
07:40I would think, though, hiking by surprise would be a much more perilous route to go down
07:42So I would suggest that if Kevin Warsh wants to hike rates, he ought to let the market price that in ahead of time
07:48>> I bet he'd rather not tell anyone
07:50>> Yeah, I kind of agree
07:52I bet he would rather not tell anybody either
07:53Uh, and I think that's the point
07:55You've got, uh, kind of Wall Street on the fence right now because they are pushing at an economy that has been very strong
08:01And I, I know many of you would say, well, Paul, the economy has not been strong
08:08We are seeing rising prices everywhere
08:10But when you look at the reality of the S&P 500 and maybe, to a certain extent, even the precious metals market or even crypto, where it is right now, there..
08:17There has still been some stability, and I think that is the factor we are facing right now
08:24One thing to consider, and I'm kind of curious, is that we just did a poll on whether or not Warsh is going to mention anything about the Clarity Act
08:31The poll had 393 votes: 55% of you said no, 32% said yes, and a few people said I don't know
08:42So, it's almost split down the middle on whether he'll mention the Clarity Act
08:44I don't think he's going to mention it, and the reason is the volatile nature of what's going on with the Clarity Act
08:54We are going to be doing a Clarity Act video tomorrow morning that will be very critical
08:58We have two days left, or really, I think, this week to get this text over to Thon to where we can..
09:06Possibly get a vote on this in early August
09:08And I think this is the issue, um, that right now Warsh would probably try to avoid
09:12So that's kind of where I think he is going to land—none of that
09:16Now, Franklin Templeton came out and talked a little bit about if we were to see rate hikes or flat, what kind of impact would that have on crypto? Take a look
09:30So, crypto trades with a pretty strong inverse correlation to rates and real yields
09:37So if the market thinks that the Fed is going to raise rates, particularly in an environment where we don't have a really strong economy, but rather a good economy, focused around the AI sector, that would not be good for crypto
09:48So it's interesting
09:59Um, last night you had a broker come out saying they expected a surprise rate hike, and you saw an immediate step down in Bitcoin and the broader ecosystem
10:10>> Look, we also had a chip selloff and some margin calls that were coming in
10:16Um, that too can be something that affects crypto
10:20>> All right, chip selloff, uh, margin calls
10:22Yeah, all of that is related to the AI trade that's out there right now
10:26And I think, a lot of you—maybe, well, maybe not a lot, some of you, I know because I see it in the comments—you are making AI trades on a variety of things
10:36We've talked about these in the past, and there are some out there that were good winners, but when you look at the current memory and chip stocks right now, semiconductors..
10:44It's pretty much down right now, even with SK Hynix, after just listing down 47%, Micron down 28%, which is the big winner of this year
10:55Western Digital is down 28.8%, AMD 12%, TSMC down 5%
10:59So, there's been a hit, and I think we'll continue to see a hit on these stocks at least for some time
11:07And the key here is going to be how these hyperscalers continue to spin
11:13I think this will, of course, lead to one of two paths that will happen for crypto: one is hyperscalers continue to level up, and we see an extended run in the S&P 500, primarily tied to AI, or we finally get someone that flinches
11:29And by that, I mean someone says we're pausing
11:32I'm talking about a major player
11:36So if we get that kind of situation, that I think is..
11:39The rotational message for capital is looking for alternative outlets, and of course that means crypto
11:45Other things that you have to look at are, uh, the volatility level of this
11:49Bloomberg kind of hit on it right here
11:52Crypto traders bring meme coin-style volatility to AI stocks, and I would agree with that
11:58We are seeing that kind of volatility across the S&P 500 companies that are trading above the 200 DMA
12:03So, the point being is there's a typical process of how certain investors play into this
12:13And one of the things that really triggers much of this is these macro headwinds
12:18And as we see the AI trade continue out, even though Bloomberg often will say, uh, and many of their analysts are saying that, uh, AI is Still on a uptrend here overall
12:28I think we might be looking for a pause very soon with some of these AI stocks
12:35So again, this is not financial advice, just saying you should go out and invest
12:37I think if you've been in the AI trade now, the question is, do you exit or do you ride this one out a little further? If you're not in the AI trade, then that's probably not a trade for you
12:47I think I’d be looking at crypto as the alternative because of the rotational aspect of assets that will be rotating into crypto soon
12:54Balshun has hit on something that's quite interesting here, and what he's talking about is what has been going on in Korea in general, and of course the big issue— and we did a video on this— right now
13:08One of the… Big reasons that we saw some of the dips within the Korean stock exchange, and the trigger that they've been pulling was really geared toward some of the memory and chip makers
13:20And the reason was CXMT
13:23We've talked about this before; the Chinese market has kind of caused a lot of that
13:27But yet, what they did was blame this on, at least, the politicians, and they blamed it on a two-times leverage ETF
13:33And I think this is just kind of the typical thing
13:36They had to come out with something because of these circuit breakers being triggered
13:40I think this is just going to be a continued pattern, and this is a good example, guys
13:46This is a good example of rotation of capital, where you see something coming out as a good stock
13:53Samsung is seeing some movement out of, like, a blue-chip stock in the Korean Stock Exchange and rotating into some of these Chinese chip makers that could potentially see massive upside
14:04So, that is an example of how this capital is rotating
14:11Now, take that and apply it to what could happen in AI, with a rotation or even with a clarity position that could happen, and where does crypto go from there? So, two things are going to happen
14:24Either you don't get clarity and you get a market hit, or we continue to see the macro headwinds that push and you get a Fed rate hike
14:30Those are the three things that could be bad for the rest of the year: a Fed rate increase, and that would be later this fall
14:36Those are
14:41The three things we're watching very closely that would be catalysts to really push crypto into a last-ditch, uh, capitulation
14:46The alternative to that is clarity gets through, and of course if that happens, uh, it changes, I think, the dynamic in general of where this goes
14:56And, um, let me know what you guys think
14:58Do you think if clarity does go through, is this a long-term pump, or is this maybe a pump and dump? Just let me know in the comments down below
15:05As I said, we'll be taking some questions
15:07Uh, we'll stay on top of the Fed meeting, as you'll see
15:12They're going to be coming on here in about five minutes
15:13Uh, and I want to wrap up on a few points here, uh, before we get going here, to uh, Chair Waller
15:17And it is Ark Invest
15:20This is something that Ark..
15:24Investors have been talking about this for some time
15:26Crypto consolidation, bankruptcies, shutdowns are expected to increase in the coming months
15:30This is what they think is going to happen here
15:34Uh, and if you look at not only that, how does this play for the crypto industry with a deeper consolidation than previous bear markets, that's really a concern right now because, are we, and have we seen enough of a pullback? Because many people would kind of look at Bitcoin and say, "No, I think Bitcoin has kind of come down," and in reality it has not come down to its previous levels that we have seen in the past
15:57So, is there another sub-60K Bitcoin waiting for us in the cards? You've got HyperLiquid and Pumped Off Fund accounting for 67% of total application
16:07Revenue, while the top three projects, including Athena, all of those account for nearly 80%
16:12So, this is the kind of situation that could start to balance out in the market
16:16Uh, of course, that being what's happening with ARC
16:21Also, we'll get into this right here, because you've got a lot of institutional investors now dumping tech stocks at a rapid pace, and this, again, could serve as a signal
16:30Could this be the signal right now that tells us that something is brewing in DC for clarity, or just a rotation of certain capital? And some of these hedge funds are finally saying now is the time to get into these semiconductor sell-offs
16:51So, all of that is in play right now in the market, and I think this is the pressure that we may..
16:55See in the coming months, in the coming weeks, as we play into this
17:00The other thing that happened was Morgan Stanley launching Ethereum and Solana ETPs
17:03This is all staking with the NYSE
17:08And what it means is that Morgan Stanley is going to end up returning stake profits to its holders, which is insane
17:15Within this, I've got a clip on this that explains what they're going to do
17:20This is Morgan Stanley
17:22Take a look
17:23>> We wanted to include staking in it from an ETF perspective to add that additional yield
17:27You can see from an Ethereum perspective, historically that's ranged about 2 to 3%, around 2.8% of additional yield, and for Solana around 6 to 8%
17:36So, that is where we're positioning the products, and as I said
17:41Each issuer has structured their product for take-home fees
17:44You know they will take a cut of those Solana rewards or Ether rewards, and we're looking to pass back 100% of the rewards for that
17:55Do you guys realize how big of a statement that is? This is traditional finance that is in a position now where they actually are returning some profits from these investments that have been out there, employing strategies similar to Tom Lee's for some time
18:13Plus, you're looking at maybe a shift in the tide right now of traditional finance
18:19You've got BlackRock, Fidelity, Schwab, Goldman Sachs, and Franklin Templeton
18:23All together, they manage over 30 trillion dollars in assets, and they all want the Clarity Act
18:28And, uh, that is a huge..
18:31Step in the right direction
18:36Think this through for a second
18:40These kinds of banks that are out there and have the ears of most of the senators that most likely will be voting either for or against clarity
18:45And I think the question is whether or not they can get the bill to the floor
18:49If they get the bill to the floor, that's where I think the crypto industry may win because I think when you look at the pressure of the Treasury and you look at the track record of a lot of these politicians, they are really kind of looking at the banking industry as one of their soft cushions to land on
19:07Now you've got the kings of the trading market starting to support this
19:09It starts to paint a different picture in D.C., and I don't think it's going to change
19:16There is pressure, though, that is mounting on the consumer side of things when you have John Oliver, who is a massive, massive personality, with 1.8 million views, and this was all in reference to taking jabs at Trump and his crypto holdings
19:31And that's the point: this is becoming a mainstream topic that many people may not necessarily be aware of because there are a lot of people out there who are not holding crypto, not watching our show, and probably not even understanding what clarity is truly about
19:46And this, right here, I think, is a good example of the kind of level of awareness that Americans are going to be getting in just the next few months if, in fact, we get clarity through
19:56Now, I know this is not about clarity, more about where the..
19:59The Fed is heading, and we'll be going to that here in just a second
20:04Looks like he is coming up to the podium, so let's go live to Kevin Warsh
20:13Good day
20:16My second FOMC committee meeting as chairman has come quickly
20:18It's probably too early to call it a streak, but our discussions again were colligal and constructive
20:28I'm truly lucky to work with colleagues so capable, mission-focused, and so determined, like I am, to sharpen the performance of the Federal Reserve
20:39[snorts] Today, as you know, our committee decided to vote by a 9 to 3 vote to maintain the target range for the federal funds rate at 3 and 1/2 to 3 and 3/4%
20:50The committee is continuing its policy of making ample reserves in the banking system
20:56The economy is showing Impressive resilience even with recent shocks
20:59The trends are positive and reveal solid growth
21:02Job gains have kept pace with the workforce, and the unemployment rate has changed little
21:12Inflation remains elevated relative to the committee's 2% goal
21:14The committee remains resolute
21:17You've heard this before, but we will deliver price stability
21:24As before, the policy statement conveys just the facts
21:27It's steering clear of forecasting, a choice we consider especially prudent at these uncertain times
21:36Uncertainty, however, does not mean a lack of clarity
21:39For some households, businesses, and market professionals, five years of high inflation have left a mistaken impression that's hard to overcome
21:44Shake
21:48That the Fed's implicit inflation target was somehow above 2%
21:53Let me reiterate, there is no soft inflation target
22:00There is no soft implicit target, not on this committee's watch
22:06There's only a target, and it's 2%
22:11Not one of my FOMC colleagues is under any illusion
22:13We have begun a new chapter, and we understand that the five plus years of inflation above target cannot be cured in nine weeks or by a single month of modest price decreases
22:22This Fed will not waver
22:30Our credibility rests on performing our duties and delivering on our responsibilities
22:39Americans are right to expect that because our nation's prosperity depends on it
22:43To the regulars here in the press room, today's assessment might sound
22:48Familiar
22:51Yet, there was nothing inertial about our discussions, our policy, or our strategy
22:58Two economic developments are worth highlighting
23:00The first is a very notable change since our last meeting, 42 days ago
23:06Nominal and real yields are materially higher across the Treasury curve
23:12In fact, some of the increases in market interest rates between FOMC meetings are among the most significant in the last two decades, ranking around the top decile or so
23:27But if the committee didn't change its policy rate, what happened? In the intervening period, market attention centered on real data and real economic developments
23:39Prices reacted in real time to incoming information, and the reduction in forward outlooks followed accordingly
23:44Guidance may have been a factor
23:49Market participants are learning to play the ball, not the referee
23:51And market prices will continue to respond in the direction and magnitude they see fit
24:01This is, in my view, a change for the better, and we're just getting started
24:07After all, the central bank need not always and everywhere be the center of attention
24:13I understand the desire for rolling forecasts and commentary from this committee, but for our part, we need to observe market reactions to developments, direct and unfiltered
24:26I want to stress, of course, that decisions by this committee matter a great deal, and where necessary and appropriate, we will not hesitate to act
24:38A second economic development is one that I noted at The congressional oversight hearings this month, but it's worth repeating
24:47The most striking feature of the economy is the strong growth of business investment
24:53The surge in high-tech capital expenditure has been remarkable, but that does not necessarily make the Fed's role any easier
25:02In the AI-related category of high-tech equipment and software, the most recent data shows four-quarter growth rates of nearly 20%
25:13This is helping to sustain the healthy momentum of manufacturing output
25:15More generally, capital expenditure is preparing the ground for future growth
25:24Nonetheless, the precise timing and magnitude of effects on the supply side remain hard to predict
25:33FOMC meetings produce policy decisions, but just as important is candid..
25:40Discussion of the big things that matter most
25:44That, too, is a priority in this new chapter at the Fed
25:46In our meeting, vigorous discussion centered on four questions, which I will enumerate
25:55First, we talked a lot about the implications of the past five years of high inflation on the current policy stance, to echo an old phrase: has the past really passed? Second, my colleagues and I considered the economic shocks of recent years—strained supply chains arising from the pandemic, military conflicts, energy supply disruptions, substantial increases in tariff rates, and yes, the surge in AI-related investment
26:11These differ in their sources
26:28Do they also differ in their effects on output and employment? Third, we took up the related question of price increases arising from shocks
26:45The business capital expenditure boom, for example, is driving up prices of memory and logic chips and associated AI infrastructure
26:54Do these changes indicate a broader inflationary dynamic, or do we just focus on them because they are under the bright streetlight? Finally, we discuss monetary policy tools and strategies for achieving stable prices
27:12If, as the Federal Reserve has long held, interest rate policy should be its primary monetary policy instrument, how much accommodation are we getting from the balance sheet? In all of this, our work is advancing at the Fed
27:28We're asking the right questions, and in this consequential time, we know how very much
27:34Depends on getting the right answers
27:36Of course, you've all arrived with questions of your own, so let's turn to them now
27:43>> Let's start with Steve
27:47>> Uh, thank you for taking our questions, Mr
27:51Chairman
27:56You've had a couple of months now, or nine weeks, or whatever the number is, to see the markets behave in the absence of forward guidance
28:00I'm wondering if you could tell me what message you are getting from the markets regarding where policy ought to be right now
28:05>> Yeah
28:09So I think officially it's eight weeks and four days, but I'm not counting
28:14The message from markets is the message from markets
28:18What I've really been trying to do, Steve, as I think you and your colleagues appreciate, is to get an Unfiltered message from markets, getting a direct message
28:28Um, letting buyers and sellers meet at prices for Treasuries, for the foreign exchange value of the dollar, and then trying to judge for ourselves what that means about our remit
28:37How are we doing on inflation? How are we doing on employment? Um, we're trying not to interfere with that market signal
28:47That's part of the reason why we've been somewhat sparse in our words, why we pulled back from forward guidance
28:51So, they're reacting to events, I would say, much more directly over the 42 days since we last met
28:58This is a good thing
29:01As I mentioned in the prepared remarks, we've seen a material tightening not just in nominal rates, but in real rates, too
29:04And, um
29:07We're observing it
29:10We're trying to stay out of that because, you know, many of you might be interested in our reaction function
29:16We're interested in the reaction of financial markets
29:21>> I, I, I get that, Mr
29:26Chairman
29:31And I guess the follow-up question is, if the markets are talking to you, what do you hear them saying? And if it's real rates or higher, it would suggest that that's where the funds rate ought to go
29:33>> Yeah
29:35So, in >> Sorry, >> I'm sorry
29:38It's your question
29:40>> So, uh, um, interpreting markets is an imperfect business
29:44We central bankers, like market pros, can think these things are overdetermined
29:49But let me offer some speculation
29:54First, as we said in the FOMC statement that you got at 2 o'clock, the economy..
29:58Output is solid
30:02Uh, CapEx and productivity are strong
30:05Uh, labor markets are solid and steady
30:08Um, the bond market, the treasury market, it seems to be saying that as well
30:15If I were to try to break down and disaggregate the Treasury market signals, I wouldn’t be able to do it perfectly
30:21But the bond market is saying many of those same things, and that’s why we’re seeing a tightening both in nominal and real rates
30:27Even while, at some level, we haven’t done much in 42 days, uh, the markets have done quite a bit
30:37>> Claire, thank you
30:40>> Claire Jones, Financial Times
30:43Um, you seem to have gotten the family fight you were after at this meeting
30:45We saw, um, we saw three, we saw three dissenters
30:48Um, could you characterize the arguments that those dissenters..
30:53Put forward, please, and tell us a little bit why you weren't persuaded by them at this stage
30:57Thank you
31:00>> So I guess I shouldn't give you their best arguments
31:01I'll give you some others
31:03Um, so you were right
31:06I asked for a good family fight, and I got one
31:07That's the purpose
31:09That's the design feature
31:10I come into this meeting, even this press conference, heartened by what I've experienced the last two days
31:18Most of our discussions were on the big questions that matter to the conduct of monetary policy
31:23We didn't sort of hide from them
31:26We weren't scared of them
31:28There was a lot more interaction between and among my colleagues
31:30It was a real family fight
31:33Um, my view, which you've long heard, is uh, that's the better way to
31:35Get policy right
31:38That's our north star
31:40So, there was a lot of agreement that I heard that we have the powers, the tools, and also the authority to deliver stable prices
31:50No walking back from our responsibilities
31:55There was a large majority support for the decision that we made in the room
31:59But I also want to leave you, Claire, with one other impression
32:01There was nothing inertial about that discussion
32:04It was an active, robust discussion about what's in the full range of what we can do and might want to do in the period ahead
32:12You characterized accurately there was a disagreement about a decision today
32:17I would say that doesn't capture the full essence of the discussion
32:22The path to central bank heaven requires..
32:25Delivering on our remit
32:28These days, that means delivering on price stability
32:32I wouldn't measure that path in 42 days or in any one particular meeting, and I came out of that meeting even more confident that this is the right team to win the battle against high inflation
32:45>> How much do you think not going in July was due to the cool CPI print for June? >> [snorts] >> So, in two words, not much
32:52Not much
32:58Um, I'd like to believe that the committee shares my view, which is the historic problem with data dependence is the data and the dependence
33:05We are not relying on any one individual piece of data as cover, as an excuse, or as validation
33:16Um, what I care about and what I think the committee cares about is trends in the data
33:20Sure, we got some encouraging inflation data
33:23I think at the meeting 42 days ago, I said something like 6 to 3 months of inflation above target
33:31I didn't say 6 to 4, though; the final calculation might be a close one
33:37So, we'll be watching inflation data over the period ahead
33:39But I also don't want you to leave the misimpression that we're sort of breathlessly waiting for that
33:44I've called for a task force to revisit both the private and public data we use to make our decision— that task force is outdoing their work
33:55I'll be checking back in with them the next couple of weeks, but I wouldn't say we overly relied on any one piece of data, including that data which surprised some a couple of weeks ago
34:08Neil
34:09>> Hi, Chairman
34:10Worsh, thanks
34:11Neil Irwin with Axios
34:12Thank you for taking our questions
34:14Um, so the Fed funds rate is now about 75 basis points below the 2-year yield
34:18Uh, it suggests markets think you'll have to tighten eventually, about 100 basis points below most Taylor rule estimates
34:23You're hitting your employment mandate
34:25Inflation stays high
34:26Why should rates not be higher today? >> There's a lot in there, Neil
34:29Um, so rates are higher today than they were 42 days ago
34:37Um, markets have made decisions because we step back in part from trying to influence those
34:43Market judgments have moved up on what nominal rates are across the Treasury curve
34:50That doesn't mean we take them as by dictate, but we're observing them
34:56So, I think It's a mischaracterization to say that markets haven't reacted because we didn't move today
35:04Markets are reacting in real time
35:06In the period ahead, we've got important decisions to make about the policy rate
35:11markets in the intervening period, I think, have quite a few decisions to make
35:16I'll see if I can put it this way: monetary policy matters not just by what we say or even what we do
35:26Monetary policy matters by how it affects the real economy, and these prices that we see in financial markets are one of the many ways in which it affects the real economy
35:36We'll be continuing to watch that market information, see how it responds to incoming events, and that can help inform our decision-making when we meet in seven..
35:45Or eight weeks
35:48>> How would you characterize the family fight over the last couple of days, between you and the other eight members who wanted to hold? Was that a strong conviction, or was it a hair-trigger, close call on holding versus tightening? Well, I think, uh, you know, the vote was 9 to 3
36:02Um, the broader discussion over the last few days showed a lot of agreement on the hard questions
36:11Uh, the four questions I raised at the outset about what's really happening in the economy with the shocks, and absent the shocks, what are our tools and capabilities? Um, what's the effect on prices and on output? I heard a lot of commonality on the questions
36:31Were there different leanings on the answers? You bet
36:33There was
36:35Um, so could people come to different conclusions? Absolutely
36:38But my own judgment is, um, this is a period of watchful thinking, not watchful waiting
36:47And I think the score on that vote was unanimous
36:53Uh, Colby, >> thank you
36:57Colby Smith with The New York Times
36:59You've mentioned that looking at the Fed's policy tools is one element of a three-prong strategy to address the inflation problem
37:04So, I'm curious, how do you view the effectiveness of those tools? If inflation is too high and not coming down, is the best remedy to raise interest rates? >> So, that was the discussion in the last two days
37:19Is that the dominant remedy? If inflation continues to be elevated through the forecast period, interest..
37:29Rates could well be part of that solution, but I wouldn't say it's in isolation
37:32Um, I tried to describe in my remarks today, and I made this point to the oversight committees a couple of weeks ago, that there was a misimpression by some in financial markets, by some households and businesses, that central bankers like me set a 2% inflation target, but maybe we were more tolerant of a somewhat higher inflation target
37:54In economics, we'd call that the revealed preference
37:59And so, it might have been rational for people to think, well, their inflation target is somewhat higher
38:03What I have heard in the last two days, and in the eight and a half weeks since, is no, we will deliver the 2% inflation target
38:11That is the
38:13The committee's definition of price stability
38:15So, one way, absent the tools that you referenced to ensure that we get there, is to ensure that expectations are centered around the right number
38:26Um, and I think we have made some progress on that
38:29I am not suggesting we're done on that; it's worth reiterating
38:31And ultimately, the business we're in, Colby, is performance
38:37We are going to be judged by how we perform
38:38Um, and that's what we intend to do
38:42The inflation target, making clear expectations, is one part of it
38:46Making sure we demonstrate we're responsible for it, rather than blaming others, is another
38:51And our policy tools, like you referenced, are the third and equally consequential part
38:55How are you factoring in the fact that a large portion..
39:00The overshoot of inflation is being caused by supply shocks, as it's mentioned again in the statement
39:06Does that blunt the effectiveness of rate hikes in your view? >> Um, first, on the premise of your question, it was almost as if you were listening to our discussion in the last day and a half
39:15A lot of our focus was on trying to understand and identify underlying inflation dynamics amid shocks
39:20We take these shocks seriously
39:25There have been a series of them hitting this economy
39:30We're not looking through them and saying, "Oh, they don't matter." But what we're trying to understand is to what extent are these shocks broadening in their effect, broadening in their impact on prices that are quite far removed
39:37From it
39:45Our goal is to have growth that is broadening and inflation that is becoming more limited, more circumscribed
39:52Uh, I'll be the first to admit the shocks make this job and this policy conjuncture a little tougher, but that's among the chief questions we've asked ourselves, and around the room people have different views on it
40:04I tend to think in the coming months we're going to refine that view and have a better judgment, and we're going to have market prices trying to help inform it too
40:16>> Edward
40:18>> Thank you, Mr
40:19Chairman
40:21Edward Lawrence from Fox Business
40:22I guess I want to drill down maybe a little bit
40:24What specifically in your mind would be the argument then for a pause today? >> So I wouldn't characterize What we did was not anything like a pause
40:42I would characterize what we did as a rigorous review of the economic situation
40:45I would characterize what we did as a review of the big hard questions, and I would characterize it as a view of what our own homework is to try to resolve those questions in the period ahead
40:54If you were to try to force a description that this was a pause, I would say financial market prices would take the other side of that
41:05Financial market prices in this intermediate period, they didn't pause
41:10They reacted to the inflation data in one direction, strong economic growth in the other direction
41:17And, uh, nominal and real rates went up
41:20Did the Fed take an explicit change in its policy rate today? No
41:24But I..
41:27I think that's the beginning of the story, not the end of the story
41:29And, if I could, I did want to ask, not about forward guidance, but looking ahead
41:34Traditionally, a Federal Reserve chairman uses the Jackson Hole Summit as a sort of reset of monetary policy
41:40How do you view the speech you're going to give in August? >> I see it as a blank slate right now
41:45I have not yet begun discussions with the incredible team here about what will go into that document
41:54I think you characterized it correctly
41:56Historically, at least from my first term at the Fed to more recent periods, it has often been a speech setting the stage for what will happen in the fall
42:01I haven't made any..
42:06Judgments on that, but those are judgments we'll have to come to
42:12If I could, in the high mountain air in Jackson, Wyoming, I'd also like to frame the big questions
42:21There is a tendency, especially with the proliferation of meetings and press conferences, to get caught up in the myopic
42:28Did you do this by a quarter or do that? Ultimately, whether we deliver on price stability matters some; the decisions we make in six or seven or eight-week periods, but they matter more — what are the big questions? What's really happening with productivity? What's really happening with demographics? What's really happening to the global economy amid the shocks? I haven't made a decision whether it's going to be a big picture speech or..
42:54Whether it's going to be a more traditional setup for all the action we're going to have between September and December
43:00I will tell you one other thing that I am doing between now and Jackson Hole, which is I'm checking with those task forces
43:06My first principle of establishing a task force is to find the best subject matter experts anywhere in the world and put them together, especially with other people who might disagree with them
43:19In the next couple of weeks, I'm going to do a check-in
43:23I've given them time to think hard about their agenda, their debate, their schedule, and when they might be ready for prime time
43:31I'll do a little bit of that checking, and that may or may not..
43:33Not to inform anything I have to say in Jackson
43:39>> Nick, >> Nick Taros of the Wall Street Journal
43:43Uh, Chairman Powell, I want to follow up on Col's question about policy transmission
43:50You've said there's no cruel choice between stable prices and full employment
43:54Um, rates bring inflation down by cooling demand
43:57It's generally thought that this can show up in the labor market
44:01If that's not the channel you're relying on, what is? >> Yeah
44:06So, let me go back to first principles, Nick
44:08Um, I don't believe that either part of our mandate is generally at war with the other part
44:18I do not believe that price stability and full employment are an either-or proposition
44:25Um, there have been policymakers over the last several years..
44:28Generations have thought that there is a strict trade-off there
44:32That isn't my judgment
44:37In fact, my judgment is that if and when we deliver on our mandate, we're going to be satisfying both prongs
44:42We're going to have price stability and full employment
44:44And in fact, if you want to do the most harm to the labor markets, you would run a period of high inflation that's variable so that employers and businesses wouldn't really know what's going on
44:57So, I think the two parts of our mandate are equally important
45:02We have no legislative orphans here
45:03I've been talking mostly about price stability because we're doing pretty well
45:09>> All right
45:11>> So, a couple of things here
45:13Uh, one is that he is coming in slightly doubtful
45:14We're going to go back and cut back to him
45:16Some of these questions are kind of reiterated, but I think some of the key issues everybody is asking about are the lack of forward guidance, which he is trying to sidestep a little bit, and I think that is a factor that will play into whether or not we get a rate hike
45:29Also, we were two votes away from a rate hike
45:32That is close, guys
45:35So, we dodged a bullet on this one
45:38The real question is going to be the next FOMC meeting, and I don't know, we could actually see something start to move the market in a big way
45:48Not necessarily based on where we are right now, but Bitcoin is, of course, on the move right now as the chart is trending upward
45:52I mean, it's just up 1%
45:54We're on the 15-second chart, just to give you guys a sense
45:56A beat on this, but or a beat on this
45:58But, uh, if you look at Ethereum, also climbing almost in unison, Solana also almost in unison
46:03The whole crypto market feels that this is a little bit more dovish, uh, for now at least
46:11Now, could he say something yet to be revealed? If there's a smart guy in there, they're going to ask about any correlation to clarity, because I think this has a big impact on, uh, what's going to be happening with crypto
46:24Now, we are going to be doing a full clarity video tomorrow
46:27There are big bombshells happening right now in clarity
46:31We're working through the details with all of our sources, so make sure and stay tuned
46:37If you guys haven't subscribed and hit that bell, you'll at least get a notification
46:40Let's go back to Kevin Warsh
46:42I'll let the commentators speak for themselves
46:44The way I heard it over the last two days was overwhelming agreement on objectives, authority, and commitment
46:53I didn't hear anybody walking away from it
46:56The judgments as to how best to achieve price stability—that was probably the question we were trying to answer
47:06What's the best move? What's the best strategy? What's the best way to achieve it? And a second question that was asked is, when do we need to make those harder calls? When do we need to make those decisions? And, like I said to one of your colleagues, I was comforted that markets in the interim period weren’t reacting to us
47:31They weren’t reacting
47:33They appeared more than ever to be reacting to real-time events, so they're gauging themselves on how restrictive the Treasury curve should be
47:44And I think that has been a useful development
47:47We don't endorse any particular market move, but I'd also suggest we observe them with keen interest
47:56>> Janelle Marte with Bloomberg
48:01Following up on that, there was more uncertainty in the markets about what the Fed would do at this meeting
48:07To some extent, you might think that's what you want to see, but my question is whether there is a point at which you would not want to surprise the markets, especially if they are pricing in something with higher certainty that might be opposite of what you plan to do
48:20Intending to do, what are the risks that you see associated with that? Yes, so it's a good question
48:25Surprise is not the objective function; it is not what we're solving for
48:30We have a clear North Star
48:34What we're solving for is how to make the best decisions
48:39Almost everything else should be in service to that goal, by not spoon-feeding markets, by not previewing our decisions, by not sort of giving nudges or hints
48:50My colleagues and I have found in the internal meeting period that what we're getting are the views from very accomplished economists
48:58That's the internal view of financial markets, instead of just repeating or echoing what we are saying back to us
49:06They're giving us something more—not perfect—their own judgment
49:12So, surprises are..
49:18It's not the objective, but at the same time, I would say we didn't come into this meeting feeling constrained by the full range of alternatives we had in front of us
49:24So some of your peers have continued to discuss how they think about policy decisions, and if you don't offer your reaction function or your way of thinking about it, how concerned are you that you're losing control of the narrative? >> So not very concerned
49:40Uh, that's a short answer to the question
49:43Um, when some people that follow the Fed say, "Well, we don't want your forecast, we don't want your Dot Plot, we just want your reaction function." Part of me hears that what we really want is your forecast
49:56What we really want is your Dot
49:58In terms of reaction function, let me..
50:00Sort of disabuse people of a question that may or may not be real and is out there
50:06Any central banker, especially a central banker where the labor markets are more or less at equilibrium, when they see underlying inflation moving higher, they are more inclined to tighten policy
50:27Again, when you've achieved the other side of your mandate and see underlying inflation falling, they are more inclined to loosen policy
50:37That's my reaction function
50:47And I don't suspect it will cause people to stop pushing for more, because the truth is, for a very long time, in a lot of countries coming out of the 2008 crisis, we were in crisis mode, deliberately providing a lot of information
50:57Trying to provide a lot of assurance, trying to tell people exactly what we're going to do, offering forward guidance with clarity as if we're tying our own hands behind our back
51:07Well, in crisis mode, that strikes me as a very prudent policy
51:12But in more benign conditions, it strikes me as worth revisiting
51:14However, markets, market participants, and reporters have learned to devour all that information
51:23So, I take seriously that the pullback of forward guidance requires some transition
51:28Reform isn't easy, but our general judgment is going to help us make better decisions and, in so doing, satisfy our remit
51:39Uh, Paul Weissman is coming
51:45>> Thank you
51:50Um, when you talk about the 2% inflation target, what measure are you..
51:52Yeah
51:54So I'll give two answers
51:56First, let me give the proper standard answer
51:58The Federal Reserve every January outlines a statement of purposes and strategy
52:07And in that strategy document, which I believe was dated January of this year, it describes a measure of PCE inflation as the objective function there
52:18Um, I have enough of my..
52:20So that's our number
52:22We're sticking with it
52:24Who knows, after next January, what we might say about strategy
52:28I suspect the task forces might have something to add
52:30But I'll say this: some version of the Lucas critique, some version of Goodhart's Law, and economics should remind us that when we talk about measures of inflation or something else, and we..
52:46Describe those measures as being consistent with our objectives
52:52We might make them such that they're not very good measures or very good objectives
52:58Broadly, if you said to me, standing in front of you, I abide fully by the strategy, we’re going to deliver 2% inflation and not a whisper more
53:08But to achieve that, I'm looking at a broader set of inflation data than PCE, so without fully revealing my cards, I'm trying to understand, like my colleagues, what the underlying generalized change in prices that are happening in the economy is
53:25It is not a perfect science
53:28Um, I might have said 42 days ago, I've got a task force for that, but we have a data project that's trying to look and see whether we can't separate the..
53:33Noise from the signal
53:39And so, if you would hear a message from me, yes, I care about what the PCE inflation prints are
53:45I care about what the contributions are from CPI and everything else, but my lens is broader than that
53:50Uh, even though the remit is quite narrow
53:55[clears throat] Mike McKee
54:02>> Michael McKee from Bloomberg Radio and Television
54:04Uh, I'm struggling a little bit with some of what you've said today, and maybe you can help clarify this
54:11Uh, you've said over and over again that your job is to bring down prices to get prices stable, to hit your target, and that you will hit your target
54:22The market says you're not there yet because they've raised rates
54:25Uh, but all you've talked about today is talking about it, and it's not like
54:32Members of the committee weren't there before you, talking about it
54:36So I guess what the American people might be asking is, what are you waiting for? >> Yeah
54:42So believe it or not, this press conference is not all I've done today
54:48We have spent an inordinate amount of time in the last two, two weeks, looking at our monetary policy strategy, evaluating our tools, thinking hard about the sources of data that we have at our disposal and what we wish we had
55:07We've also thought hard about the period ahead
55:09What among these questions will be answered with more clarity, certainly not certainty
55:14So the decision we made today, the discussion we had in that room was the farthest thing from inertia I can imagine as a point
55:24Estimate at this very moment is a choice between two alternatives
55:30You heard the results of it, but I would tell you that this discussion was far more robust, and our thinking about how best to achieve that target is advanced
55:41Over the coming months, I expect it to be advanced much more significantly
55:46If you were to, sort of, if I were to steal a follow-up question, you—I won't let you, you won't be giving it up
55:51If I were to steal a follow-up question, well, what's the world think about what you've done? I [snorts] would again reiterate that what we do isn't just about what we say
55:56It's not just about what we do
56:00We're in the performance business
56:05And so, if I look at the Treasury curve, if I look at the dollar, if I— Look at a lot of things that are internal inside of financial markets
56:17I think what they're broadly saying is that this committee does own it, has the credibility to deliver it, and they believe, like I do, that we will
56:29Um, but I don't want to leave you with a misimpression
56:33We've got no magic wand
56:34Um, this isn't something that we're going to be able to carry out in days or weeks, but we're going to deliver on the responsibility that Congress gave us
56:42And today's meeting, and the preparation for today's meeting, was an important step toward that destination
56:51Um, I'd like to follow up on the task forces as well, and ask what vetting did you do of the people that you appointed to the task forces, in particular considering Mark Andreessen's..
57:00Substantial political spending, $25 million in just the past year, to back candidates who oppose stricter AI regulation
57:07How can the public be confident that a committee he co-chairs will provide an independent assessment of AI's economic effects rather than one aligned with the interests of the AI industry? >> Yeah
57:20So, I selected 15 incredible subject matter experts to tackle five of the most important questions
57:31If we get the answers right, we're going to do a far better job in delivering
57:36And if we get the answers wrong, we have a problem
57:39The comfort that I can give you and your listeners is we're the decision makers, the chairman of the Federal Reserve Board and the members of the..
57:50Board and the FOMC, we will be the consumers of the outputs from five different committees
57:57The judgments we're making will be informed by, but not at all determined by, these outside groups
58:04My theory of the case in establishing the task forces was to pick people with extraordinary talent, deep expertise, and a divergence of views within every committee so they too can have a family fight
58:21This is not outsourcing to people that aren't known and haven't been vetted
58:27This is seeing whether new ideas can catalyze a broader, better, more informed discussion inside the room
58:33And I'm very confident that we're going to be able to do that
58:38I am impressed by the credentials of these 15 people, and full disclosure, I've..
58:44Known almost all of them for a very long time
58:46And I think they're going to give their best views on the subject
58:51But ultimately, these are decisions we're going to make and we're accountable to our oversight committees and to the remit Congress gave us to deliver
58:56>> Hi, Ann Saphir with Reuters
59:01Nice to see you again
59:07Um, so I need a little help here, too
59:10You've said repeatedly you have no tolerance for inflation, and yet we are seeing above-target inflation repeatedly for five years and through your term so far
59:23Sure, you have no magic wand, but you have not taken action
59:29You just gave us a little peek at your reaction function as well
59:33You said that if underlying inflation is rising, that you would tend to..
59:37I think that you might need to tighten, and with the exception of the most recent inflation print, that is what we've been seeing
59:47So, could you explain what you mean by no tolerance for inflation and what you plan to do about it? >> Sure
59:56So, Ann, I hear from you what I hear more broadly from households and businesses
01:00:02Impatience
01:00:04Deliver it already
01:00:06Um, this is not an excuse
01:00:08This is a fact
01:00:11This FOMC, this board, has been in session for eight and a half weeks
01:00:13The patience, the impatience that households and businesses feel has been going on for 63 months
01:00:18We are on the job
01:00:23We will deliver
01:00:28We are focused like a laser on making sure we can do it
01:00:31Um, but the suggestion that we're going to be able to do it with..
01:00:36Our magic wand is one I want to disabuse you and everyone else of
01:00:40But the discussion over the last two days has given me more confidence than I had eight and a half weeks ago
01:00:45This team that we have at the FOMC, the support that we have from board staff, and the new hard questions we're asking—we need to resolve those
01:00:55And as we resolve those questions and get smarter on them, we're going to deliver on the commitment
01:01:00Um, you don't have to take my word for it
01:01:03Uh, if you look broadly at market prices, they are certainly not saying all clear, but they are working in concert to keep us on our toes, and they have tightened financial conditions during this inter-meeting period, and um, that has given us, uh, that has provided us with some, some, some..
01:01:26Comfort that, uh, that we've got the ability and capability to deliver
01:01:33And, and, and is your, um, read or your, I guess, faith in markets' ability to sort of make a judgment and then you to take a signal from that judgment? How does that, um, affect you when you come up to the September meeting, and markets are seeing a near 100% chance of a rate hike, as they see now? How does that feed into your decision-making and your thinking? >> So, we're not going to be constrained by market prices
01:02:11We're not going to be constrained or take verbatim from what the markets are doing, but I think it's useful to understand that markets can be a very good source of information
01:02:22Not a determinative source, not a perfect source, but if we're trying
01:02:28To land the plane and deliver 2% inflation, we take a very useful source of information, but we get it all fogged up [snorts] by giving it our own forecasts, by providing rolling commentary
01:02:41I can assure you that we're going to have less information, less ability to land the plane successfully, and deliver price stability
01:02:50We're just trying to make sure that this source of information is as direct and unfiltered as possible
01:02:53It isn't to the exclusion of other data sources, opinions, and surveys, but if you're hearing from me, we wanted to make sure we were getting a better source of information
01:03:04I think in a relatively short time, we are
01:03:09>> Uh, we'll go to Brian Chung for the last question
01:03:11>> Hi there, Chairman Worsh
01:03:13Brian Chung with NBC News
01:03:15So, you said you'd be open to having press conferences when there's news to announce
01:03:19Today, there was no change to rates, and no forward guidance
01:03:24For the average household, I guess, what was the news today? So, apparently, the news was that I had a press conference
01:03:33Let me see if I can offer some clarity on that
01:03:36Between now and the end of the year, my predecessors and the Federal Reserve committed to holding press conferences this year
01:03:42I am committing to press conferences this year
01:03:48That might be news to the people in this room and of no particular interest to your viewers and readers back at home
01:03:53What I can offer as assurance is that the Fed is on the case, that this Fed Chairman feels..
01:04:02Better about this board and this committee's ability to deliver than I did when I showed up here on the first day
01:04:10And I showed up pretty confident
01:04:11Um, I've been heartened by the reception that I received
01:04:15Uh, no doubt in some of your commentaries today, you'll talk about a divided Federal Reserve
01:04:20Boy, that's not the feeling I felt the last couple of days and the days before that
01:04:26What I felt was a group of professionals, all with different perspectives, different views, different judgments, but eager to roll up their sleeves and have a family fight, eager to reform the way in which the Fed does policy—a keenness, open-mindedness, and curiosity about that
01:04:45So we have a far better chance to deliver on the..
01:04:49Remember that Congress gave us
01:04:51And so, I want to leave you with the optimism of a new central banker, that we're committed as ever to deliver, and to offer an assurance we will
01:05:01Thank you all very much
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